Unregistered said:
The Cremonas are 4 ohm, 90 dB sensitivity speakers, not hugely difficult to drive, as I understand it. I do profess limited understanding, though, as this weekend we were listening to JMLab Diva Utopia speakers with a SimAudio 200W/channel 5 channel amp, and while listening to "Rhapsody In Blue" at pretty high levels repeated clicking and popping occurred at the high dynamic passages, which the salesperson translated as meaning that clipping had occurred and a significantly more powerful (and thereby more expensive) amp was required. This, despite the fact that he had selected that amp for the demo, the JMLabs are listed at 90 dB at 8 ohm, and the web site states that 200 wpc is the "maximum power handling for a musical program". So I'm confused. Is it truly trial and error to see if a particular combination of speaker and receiver/amp will work, or can one rely somewhat upon the specs (like with the Yamaha)?
I would suggest you asked the salesguy to have your Cremonas demoed with the Z9 for you to make a more personal assessment. In my experience, 4-ohm loads are not in the province of many Japanese mass consumer products. There are exceptions, but they mostly belong to the separates category and the high end series of these brands.
Yes, I'll be using a sub, although that's another story as Sumiko (which imports Sonus Faber) recommends dedicating a REL sub to the fronts which are run full range, and then letting the rest of the speakers be set to LARGE and relying on their own capabilities, unless one dedicates a sub to each set of speakers (one to the center channel, one to the sides, one to the rears). I'm currently leaning to setting all speakers to SMALL and crossing over to one or more subs, however.
If you have a relatively large room, I would suggest using multiple subs, especially if you plan to cross all speakers to SMALL. That way you won't lose out on bass directionality which becomes apparent at high crossover points, say around 100hz.
Hey, has anyone used the Presence speakers? I'm still curious as to whether these convey a significant advantage, which if everything else works out, would be a nice feature for movie viewing. To date, I (and everyone I've talked to) think I'd be silly to go for 9.1, but the idea still intrigues me.
You can always try them out. I haven't.
At this point I'm being pulled in the direction of the Lexicon out of uncertainty (and the ability to afford it), unless someone with experience with the Z9 and alternatives (possibly Gene, who wrote the review for Audioholics) would be able to give the true bottom line as to relative capabilities of the routes I'm considering. That is, someone who could say "The Z9 has evolved to a point where separates no longer convey a significant advantage, other than possessing certain processing features (if one needs them) or the ability to upgrade (if one needs that)".
If you read the z9 reviews in this forum, that's precisely the moderators' point - that receivers like the z9 have come to give separates a run for their money. (It often makes me suspicious if they have any fiduciary connections with these HT receiver makers. In the same way they are suspicious if I have fiduciary interest with the makers of separates.
) Obviously from my posts, I do not subscribe to such nonsense. But like I said, do take the time to audition so you can discover for yourself. Personally, all-in-one solutions invite Murphy's LAw more readily than separates. I am not questioning the quality control of Yamaha or any brand like what some nitwit in another thread have laughably put in my mouth. I am merely pointing out that the more complex a gear is, the more chances of failure. Simple. And at the slightest failure in any component of a receiver, I would hate to pull such a hefty monster out of its rack and haul it all the way to the service center, leaving me with nothing to play with, no amp, no tuner, no preamp, no processor. Separates, while admittedly having complex interconnections, provide a degree of flexibility that allows the owner to mix and match and isolate problems more easily by their specialized componentry. Murphy's law also applies, no doubt, but its threat is more spread. I know of some audiophiles who even have separate DTS decoders, DD/DPL decoders, DSP processors, 5 mono linestage preamps and 5 power monoblocks that give them so much freedom to mix and match. And they can add/subtract channels anytime. A failure in one box won't leave them entirely cold. But a failure in a receiver could.
And if I decide to go with the Z9 or Lexicon as a pre-pro, does anyone know what would be a good amp to go with the Cremonas? Is it really like selecting the right wine to go with Vichyssoise, as some (like those at Audio Asylum) seem to suggest?
Pundits in this forum might tell you that amplifiers all sound the same. Even receivers and separate amps sound the same, according to them. To a certain extent, I can agree, above a certain price point. Not below. Too many compromises in parts and circuit design can deliver technical differences among recievers and amps in the mass market category. While it is entirely possible that low-to-mid end speakers mated with these mass-fi products will not reveal their sonic difference, I have had the opportunity to listen to some mass product receivers like a Pioneer and a Yamaha flagship mated to a B&W Nautilus and Martin Logan speakers. Compared to how they sounded on a Bryston and Meridian separates, these mass market products sounded pathetically thin and two-dimensional.
I do not entirely agree that mating speakers with amps is like selecting vintage wines to go with the viands. That may be so for tube amps which can be picky. But for SS amps, especially the more powerful and neutral ones, I see no problem mating them with any speakers of note. There is some case to be made about coloured amps being mated properly with similarly colored speakers. Like a bass deficient amp sounding better on a boomy speaker or vice versa. But that's for colored amps and speakers that are common among mass market products. With most fine separate amps and speakers that are neutral, transparent, linear and acurate, matching is the least consideration. Personally, I'd stick with any of those powerful neutral amps that can drive difficult or low loads down to 2 ohms. That way, anytime you decide to use those speciality low impedance speakers, you'd have no problem. I'd shy away from those mass market products in your case. Since your Cremonas are 4-ohm rated, I'd go the safer route and get a Bryston, an Aragon or a Meridian, among others, all of whom are known to drive 4-ohm loads without difficulty. SOme even go down to 2 ohms. They have models that are multichannel, stereo, 3-channel or monoblocks.
But if i got it right that you are thinking of getting the Z9 as a preamp/procesor, I have no qualms about that. Like I said, the Z9 is an excellent digital processor. But I really wouldn't be too concerned about those bells and whistles, and presence channels. I am not aware of any DVD material out there that has this. And personally, the lesser the DSP processing, the purer the sonics can be by leaving untouched what the studio and director wanted their DVDs to sound like. 5.1 for me is enough. Going for matrixed 6.1 or 7.1 or processed 9.1 with those presence channels can be exciting for sure. And a novel listening experience. But I prefer to hear what the director wanted me to hear in my room. IF he had the film encoded in mono or 5.1, that's how I want to hear it. I've heard what a DSP can do to a mono soundtrack. Also to a stereo track turned 6.1. I am not exactly ecstatic about it. But that's just me, ofcourse.
Sorry for the long post, but I've got questions, and Inquiring Minds Want To Know.
Which is where I started, before my last attempt disappeared, which was God's way of letting me know that my posts are too long.
Brian
You posts aren't really that long. IF you gotta make a point, length shouldn't matter. You should see some of my earlier posts.
