Yamaha RX-V450 vs. Pioneer VSX-D814

[kay]

Hi all!

Both these receivers fit my budget perfectly:

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=8431&taxonomy_id=62-98
http://www.yamaha-uk.com/homecinema/receivers/rx-v450/

They both do Dolby PL IIx, similar real-world power outputs, only major difference is that the Pioneer has two rear surround outputs (7.1) whereas the Yammy only has one (6.1). The Pioneer also has more video inputs but the Yamaha is fine for me - I only plan on using one component video source. Also an issue to consider - I'm thinking of buying a Pioneer DVD player of some sort and the D814 remote will most likely be able to control the player while the Yammy might not.

I will audition them both but I fear they might both sound identical to my untrained ears during a short listening test.

Any experiences with these two? Any general comments about both brands? It appears to me that the Pioneer is more feature-packed while the focus of the Yamaha is more on sound quality, and if that's really the case I would pick the Yamaha.

 

[brendy]

The Yamaha is a much higher quality unit.They are well known for their DSP processing.The last sentence of your post is correct.

 

[shokhead]

The Yamaha is a much higher quality unit.They are well known for their DSP processing.The last sentence of your post is correct.

Dont step on the BS. Yamaha is much higher quality unit. They are both good quality units and for me,i hate DSP modes. Never heard one that worked but for 5 /7channel stereo. Dont discount more inputs and outputs because you never know what comes along down the line. I would rather have them and not need them as to not have them and need them.

 

[kay]

At this price level just how much of a difference in quality is there? I don't think much.

Valid point about the inputs. I guess they're like hard drive space and horsepower - you can never have enough

I'm not a big fan of DSP either. And a few months I'll only be running 5.1 and will probably not have space for more speakers for quite some time, so the extra rear channel on the Pioneer is not *that* big an advantage for me.

Reviews that I've found on the internet sound like the Yammy is slightly better in the sound dept. though. And it's the recommended entry-level received in the Audioholics buying guide.

More opinions, anyone?

 

[shokhead]

I think the Pioneer is better looking and it has the auto setup. Everything else looks pretty much equal but for a few ins and outs. I dont think you can go wrong with either. Think where you would like to be with it in a few years and see if that makes any difference.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I like the Pioneer over the Yamaha. More channels, more power, and more options. With the MCACC, set up should be a breeze. On both units, you can tailor the sound to your taste. I really like the Pioneer VSX 1015 if you can step up a few models. For the price, it's a killer receiver and basically a rebadged Elite model. The 1015 would be a better buy if your speakers are not efficient or if you will have them in a large room, having an spl rating under 91db. I am not partial to Pioneer - I have a Yamaha receiver in my two channel music system. I don't think the Yamaha sounds any better than Pioneer - especially in this price range. You may begin to hear slight differences in the Elite and upper end V and Z series Yamaha's. But then again, there is so much flexibility in sound that it becomes a matter of best bang for the buck.

 

[kay]

The auto set-up of the Pioneer does sound like a cool feature. I'm a Unix nerd and not scared of fiddling and tweaking, but on the other hand I'm new to this and my room is slightly out of the ordinary so the automated help would be great.

From the pictures, I like the looks of the Pioneer better and its remote looks a whole lot better organized. Since neither is back-lit I suspect the Pioneer remote would be better to use in the dark. Not a big issue though, I like to set everything up once, turn the lights off and just watch till the end.

I found a Pioneer VSX-AX10AVi at one place but that's about 10 times the price of the D814. Sadly, I just can't stretch my budget beyond the D814 level. Stuff here is horribly overpriced - sometimes 2-3 times the USA/UK prices I see on the internet.

Another receiver that I found locally is the Cambridge Audio Azur 540R - sounds like it delivers good power (~80wpc realistically) and clean, very highly rated in the UK, but it only does 6.1 and doesn't have PL IIx - just PL II. Is that a big disadvantage? It's got plenty of connections (better than the Yamaha) and killer looks:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=1&Title=Azur+540R

I don't think the Cambridge brand is very populer across the pond though.

 

[Nomo]

I really hate going against the Yamaha vote, but at this price range I'd go for the Pioneer.
Stepping things up a couple of notches I'd take the RX-V657/650 over the Pioneer VSX-1015.

 

[SilverMK3]

I auditioned both of them before ending up with my Pioneer and don't regret the choice at all. The remote is great on the 814, and has no problems doing every feature that my Pioneer DVD player supports.

As far as DSP modes go, the novelty wears off very quickly, simple 2ch stereo usually sounds better for listening to CDs anyway; though DTS:Neo6 Music sounds cool on some recordings.

 

[kay]

Great, thank you all for the advice!

The RX-V650 retails for $1000-$1200 locally so that's just not on

 

[mfabien]

I see that the Yamaha RX-V450 has a selectable crossover level. Reading the specs on the Pioneer, have not seen that and suspect the crossover is a fixed one.

If your Main speakers can handle good bass between 60 and 90 Hz, you may want to have flexibility to handle bass between your subwoofer and the Mains. That may be more important than whether DSP is the thing for you or not.

 

[kay]

Yes, it looks like the Pioneer doesn't have one. When is this feature useful exactly? I thought all decent receivers have some form of bass management allowing one to set speakers to small or large, and depending on that divert the bass in from the speakers to the LFE channel.

 

[mfabien]

Yes, it looks like the Pioneer doesn't have one. When is this feature useful exactly? I thought all decent receivers have some form of bass management allowing one to set speakers to small or large, and depending on that divert the bass in from the speakers to the LFE channel.

My Yamaha RX-V540 has a fixed crossover and that takes place at 90Hz whereas frequencies at 90Hz and lower will go to the sub (if your Main speakers are set to SMALL).

In my case with the Front Tower speakers that I have, that is adequate. But there are cases of excellent full range front speakers that could provide good results between 70 and 80Hz (or even lower) and having a receiver which permits you to select the crossover point is a real advantage.

The crossover dial on the sub itself is more appropriately used when the sub is connected to the Front speakers, via High Level wires, instead of the digital connection to the sub from the receiver. I would think you would want digital connection.

 

[kay]

Just for reference, I found that on the Pioneer D814 the sub crossover can be set to 100, 150 or 200Hz for the Small speakers. In addition, you can select the subwoofer to only play LFE effects, or LFE+bass from all speakers (large and small). In the latter case, I could not figure out from the manual what the cross-over point is for the large speakers - I guess the same as for the small speakers.

I'm pretty much set on the Pioneer - mainly for the better remote and connectivity (pre-outs are especially nice). It appears that the 914/1014/1015 are not even sold in this country. Thanks everyone!

 

[mfabien]

Just for reference, I found that on the Pioneer D814 the sub crossover can be set to 100, 150 or 200Hz for the Small speakers. In addition, you can select the subwoofer to only play LFE effects, or LFE+bass from all speakers (large and small). In the latter case, I could not figure out from the manual what the cross-over point is for the large speakers - I guess the same as for the small speakers.

I'm pretty much set on the Pioneer - mainly for the better remote and connectivity (pre-outs are especially nice). It appears that the 914/1014/1015 are not even sold in this country. Thanks everyone!

Normally, when you set Front speakers to LARGE, you would also set LFE to both MAINS and SUBWFR. However, that would be best when your MAIN speakers are of the Full Range type, meaning that they could handle (and well) frequencies above 40 Hz or 50 Hz. And if you had a possible crossover setting of 60 Hz, then you could make good use of the full range capability of your MAINS. But I suspect that is not your case.

In your case, the Yamaha would provide a more appropriate crossover of 90 Hz (although it is Fixed). Again, you should set your speakers to SMALL unless they are proven Full Range Speakers.

 

[kay]

More Questions

Oh-o! Bringing up a thread from the dead for the 2nd time now! I do apologize

The Yamaha RX-V450 has its power output rated into 8, 6, 4 and 2 ohms in the manual. The Pioneer only has a rated output into 8 ohms, and a switch for "6 ohm compatibility". According to the Audioholics receiver buying guide, this is a Bad Thing (TM). Another thing that I've noticed - the Pioneer's power consumption is 600w whereas the Yamaha is 360w. Does this have any implications for the possible current output? Further, the Pioneer's power output is really not that great if you look at the figures below:

Pioneer VSX-D814: 100w into 8ohm, 1kHz test tone, 1.0% THD
Yamaha RX-V450: 95w into 8ohm, 1kHz test tone, 0.06% THD

Weight is nearly identical for the two (10.6kg vs 11kg). After having read both manuals I get the impression that the Yamaha has more sound customization features - things like the stepped sub cross-over and a centre channel EQ.

Why is this so difficult?! I just wish there was a clear winner Am I reading too much into this? Should I just shut up and save for a RX-V650? (I just feel that might be an overkill for the speakers I plan on getting - Wharfedale Diamond's which are about 2/3 the cost of the 650).