Yamaha RX-V2500 with separate power amplifier

[rongen37]

Hi there, will a separate power amplifier greatly improve the sound? I'm looking at Ebay's Sunfire TGA-5200 (5 channel amp) and Adcom 7607 (7 channel amp) but I have no way to test them 'cause they are not available here in The Philippines. I have to order them online and have it shipped here. I usually use the system 70% music & 30% movies. My system consist of a Yamaha RX-V2500, B&W 602 S3 (front), LCR 60 S3 (center), Bose am15 series1 for the surround & JBL E250 subwoofer. Planning on upgrading to a B&W 683 soon. Thanks in advance & all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[bandphan]

greatly improve, no, expand yes. If you can afford the amps and they are in working order, go for it.

 

[jcPanny]

Sound upgrade

I would consider upgrading the subwoofer and the surround channels for a better audio improvement. Your receiver has a decent amplifier and those speakers are not a difficult load.

You also might consider room treatments. The speakers and the room are the most important components.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Bose am15 series1 for the surround & JBL E250 subwoofer. Planning on upgrading to a B&W 683 soon. Thanks in advance & all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Yes, I second jcPanny's recommendations.

 

[mazersteven]

IMO adding an amp will not improve sound quality at all. Take the money and add it to up-grading your mains and center channel.

But like jcPanny, and mtrycrafts, I agree that up-grading these items will give you the biggest improvement for your system.

(Bose am15 series1 for the surround & JBL E250 subwoofer)

 

[rongen37]

Thanks guys, so the real issue here is to first change the subwoofer and surround speakers for an improve theater like sound. What specs should I look for in a subwoofer? My room is only 18 feet L X 15 feet W X 8 feet H and I only use the sub for movies, I like to use the front's for music without the sub. And should the surround speakers be of same brand with the front's & center? The known speaker brand available here in the philippine that I know are Harman karodn's JBL, infinity, mourdant short, dali, B&W, Monitor Audio, Velodyne. Any specific model & brand you guys can give? Since I'm considering to buy the B&W 683, what sub, center & surround speaker should I look for?

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Hi there, will a separate power amplifier greatly improve the sound?

No............


One other suggestion not yet mentioned among the other fine suggestions is acoustic room treatment. The room upgrade will make a big difference!!

 

[mike c]

i would agree that the best upgrade would be either of the following (in no particular order):

1) new HDMI receiver + bluray player
2) room acoustics
3) new speakers
4) new subwoofers

if you do decide on subwoofers, make sure you give these two links a read
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=14971&start=0&rid=7164&SQ=1218667681
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/6015-index-subwoofer-tests-manufacturer-model.html

 

[mtrycrafts]

One other suggestion not yet mentioned among the other fine suggestions is acoustic room treatment. The room upgrade will make a big difference!!

From jcPanny above:
You also might consider room treatments

Hey, I am good for something

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks guys, so the real issue here is to first change the subwoofer and surround speakers for an improve theater like sound. What specs should I look for in a subwoofer? My room is only 18 feet L X 15 feet W X 8 feet H and I only use the sub for movies, I like to use the front's for music without the sub. And should the surround speakers be of same brand with the front's & center? The known speaker brand available here in the philippine that I know are Harman karodn's JBL, infinity, mourdant short, dali, B&W, Monitor Audio, Velodyne. Any specific model & brand you guys can give? Since I'm considering to buy the B&W 683, what sub, center & surround speaker should I look for?

Try to match your main speaker's company, if possible. If not, get the next best surround speakers.
No reason why you couldn't use the sub for music as well.
Velo is a good sub company since I don't see SVS or Hsu on your list.

 

[wire]

No reason why you couldn't use the sub for music as well.
Velo is a good sub company since I don't see SVS or Hsu on your list.

Music in 2 channel and sub , are not the best match . Better to let your Amp do all the work and your soundstage will work abit better .

 

[mike c]

LOL

if it's a klipsch or polk sub, i guess i understand where you're coming from.

try a quality subwoofer.

it must be weird to be listening to music without the last few octaves.

 

[rongen37]

Ok guys, since most of you usually inclined on changing the speaker system instead of adding a power amplifier, I'll use my budget for the amp to first replace my front(with floorstanding unit) & center speakers then use my B&W 602 S3 & LCR 60 S3 for surround. For the sub (since I only use it in movies), I think I'll have to wait till I hear the SVS/HSU (maybe the gray market here carry those type of subs). Regarding Room Acoustics: What should I consider changing in my listening room? Flooring is made of hardwood (no carpet), Drapes for the windows and furnitures. One more thing, since I only got one LCR 60 (surround back), do you think a 6.1 set up is almost the same as a 7.1? Or should I get another LCR 60?

 

[wire]

LOL

if it's a klipsch or polk sub, i guess i understand where you're coming from.

try a quality subwoofer.

it must be weird to be listening to music without the last few octaves.

Hehe
Try some Real speaks and a Big amp . You don't need a sub. and save your soundstage in the process .

 

[mike c]

and which of your "real" speakers is it that can play full range with decent spl's?

 

[wire]

and which of your "real" speakers is it that can play full range with decent spl's?

Yeh
in 2 channel its all about the soundstage , not how much your waterlines leak .
Full range Midbass ( lower and upper ) is much more important than Ultra Low bass for a good soundstage . So the More power you have in hand the better the soundstage in 2 channel .
I even use my 2 Channel Rig for movies .
Polk SDA 2b's 89 db's @ 6ohms (Upgraded tweets RDO198's)
Carver CT 7 Pre
Bryston 4b
I can tell you i do not need to add Sub to that system ( which is a blessing ) . The Sub bass produced by that system is very good .

 

[mike c]

i see. so you CAN'T produce the low bass. i thought you said i didn't need subwoofers if I had real speaks. my mistake.

nobody said anything about waterlines leaking SPL. just the presence of the low frequencies that is at least audible with no distortion.

instead of soundstage, try accuracy ... accuracy in the sense that you are producing ALL the frequencies the mixer of the music intended for you to hear. (yes, i said music. not HT)

 

[avaserfi]

While I have minimal interest in this thread as it seems it will degrade shortly. There is a large audio myth that is being perpetrated... Imaging and soundstage are not in anyway based on power the list below are the primary factors that control imaging [in order of magnitude]. At the same time these factors greatly contribute to perceived soundstage.

Room interaction - It has been shown through countless perceptual studies that off-axis response with similar magnitude to the axial response increases listening enjoyment in stereophonic situations. This was found to be in part due to increase realism caused by superior imaging. There are however some exemptions to these findings. Any speaker with designed to have off axis dispersion will have terrible imaging if placed within one foot of boundaries in a highly reverberant room.

Symmetry of response - this refers to the frequency and phase of the loudspeakers and effects the perception of being in the centered. Symmetry of speaker placement and listener position do play a part in this.

Treble response - Referring to a typical two channel system a slight boost in treble (3dB above 6kHz) will yield perceived "tighter" imaging with a smaller sweet spot while the same cut will yield wider, but more "loose" imaging.

You will notice power is not once noted in this highly studied area. This is because of a plain and simple truth: If a speaker is receiving enough power [from a properly designed amplifier for the application] for the dynamics required of it this power will be inaudible. Excess power is pointless plain and simple that is what excess is...

Remember, in a typical home listening environment much of what is listened to is actually the reverberant sound field not just the speakers output. This is why off axis response is so important along with properly treating ones room.

 

[wire]

i see. so you CAN'T produce the low bass. i thought you said i didn't need subwoofers if I had real speaks. my mistake.

nobody said anything about waterlines leaking SPL. just the presence of the low frequencies that is at least audible with no distortion.

instead of soundstage, try accuracy ... accuracy in the sense that you are producing ALL the frequencies the mixer of the music intended for you to hear. (yes, i said music. not HT)

The subwoofer bass takes away from the Midbass and makes the Acurracy or soundstage ( just words , that mean the same ) muffled and muddy sounding , taking away from the depth of the soundstage . I didn't say i wasn't getting enough bass , I stated above i was still getting Sub bass ( which i can only feel @ some large volumes of wattage ) , If you have ever looked @ a Pair of SDA's you would indeed understand .
Even with my Tube system , i tryed to add a sub , it just took away from the soundstage depth and i found my SP3 (when warmed up for about 3/4 to 1 hour ) did just fine in the bass dept .
All im saying , its tough to get a Sub right for all recordings ( to much adjusting to get it right on ) . If its to much , pow , there goes your soundstage .
Like i said before , 2 channel its not important to use a Sub ( unless your using Sats ) .
So you don't think my Bryston 4B can not produce enough power to produce Bass ?
Are you saying my 2B's powered by a Bryston 4B can not produce Bass ?( of course everything is set to flat ) .

 

[wire]

Symmetry of response - this refers to the frequency and phase of the loudspeakers and effects the perception of being in the centered. Symmetry of speaker placement and listener position do play a part in this.

Treble response - Referring to a typical two channel system a slight boost in treble (3dB above 6kHz) will yield perceived "tighter" imaging with a smaller sweet spot while the same cut will yield wider, but more "loose" imaging.

You will notice power is not once noted in this highly studied area. This is because of a plain and simple truth: If a speaker is receiving enough power [from a properly designed amplifier for the application] for the dynamics required of it this power will be inaudible. Excess power is pointless plain and simple that is what excess is...

Remember, in a typical home listening environment much of what is listened to is actually the reverberant sound field not just the speakers output. This is why off axis response is so important along with properly treating ones room.

Thats alot of writing
Sweet spot is the Key word in all that writing and how do you come to that conclusion , of course like you said above , speaker placement is very important .
I use 2 different ways to increase my soundstage . In one system i use a product of the late 80's and early 90's . SDA is one system , in my bedroom system i Sonic holigram and on my puter also . So speaker placement in all systems are very key . Both systems work similar , but the SDA uses more Midbass and has a larger sweetspot than Sonic Hologram .