Yamaha RX-V2500 and Dish Network problem

[Venger]

Greetings again...

I can't for the life of me figure out how to program my Yamaha remote to control my Dish Network DVR. I have my DVD player and TV entered into the remote, using the codes. But when I got to the CBSAT entry on the remote, and hit learn, it won't take any of the codes - it shows "NG". It WILL take codes for Cable boxes, but it won't take any codes for Satellite - WTF???

Very aggravating - anyone have a solution? I'd rather NOT try to tech it every damn button... surely this remote should know better.

Venger

 

[MDS]

Just because a pre-programmed remote has a setup code for a particular brand or type of device doesn't necessarily mean it will be able to control all of its functions or any of them for that matter.

The 'setup code' is nothing more than a way to point to a table in memory that contains the details of the protocol to use and the numbers for each function of a device. If those details don't match what the device expects, it won't work.

NEC1 and NEC2 are the most popular IR protocols in use because NEC makes the majority of IR emitters and receivers. The protocol is rather simple. It sends sets of numbers: device code/sub-device code, followed by the number of the function to execute. The 'device code' is for the brand; eg. Onkyo = 210. The 'sub-device code' is for a particular component; eg. Onkyo receiver = 109. If the receiver sees the NEC1/2 protocol but the device code isn't 209 or the sub-device code isn't 109, it will ignore the command that follows.

It's entirely possible that the details stored under the setup code you used don't match what the Dish expects. There is nothing you can do about it other than try to learn the command from the original remote, but that too can be problematic because there are dozens of IR protocols and some of them are very difficult for a universal remote to learn (like RC5/RC6 'toggle bit' codes used by Marantz and Philips).

The best solution is always to get a real universal remote, like Home Theater Master, Pronto, or Harmony and put the original equipment remotes in the drawer.

 

[Venger]

I understand all of that - it's not even accepting the CODES. It's not like I've tried the two different Dish Network codes, and neither were able to control it - it isn't accepting ANY code for ANY Satellite controller in the CBSAT space.

"Won't take any of the codes"

Is the operative concept.

When I program the brand using the four digit codes, the CBSAT *WILL* accept codes for various cable boxes (useless, but it does accept them), but will not accept any of the Satellite codes. Something is amiss, just need to know what...

Venger

 

[MDS]

Well if it won't accept SAT codes that are listed in the manual, then either those codes aren't actually in the remote and the manual is in error or it thinks the sat code you are entering is a cable code and there are no cable codes that match the number you entered.

If the cable/sat device key is one single key, then there might be some extra step you are missing to inform the remote that you are trying to enter a sat code and not a cable code.

 

[Venger]

It's very straightforward - select the unit, hit the learn button, hit enter, enter the code, hit enter. All the cable box codes work, none of the sat codes worked - and I tried a dozen different brands, just to see if it would take them. No dice - almost as if it's rejecting the code as the wrong type for that slot - but it's the damn CBSAT slot...

Anyone have a Yamaha remote controlling a Dish Network DVR? I'll take just the plain Dish Network channel changer at this point...

 

[BMXTRIX]

Well if it won't accept SAT codes that are listed in the manual, then either those codes aren't actually in the remote and the manual is in error or it thinks the sat code you are entering is a cable code and there are no cable codes that match the number you entered.

If the cable/sat device key is one single key, then there might be some extra step you are missing to inform the remote that you are trying to enter a sat code and not a cable code.

Dude, seriously... HE IS LEARNING THE CODE DIRECTLY FROM THE REMOTE.

The database of codes inside the remote do not work, he said that. He then said he is trying to learn from the Dish Network original remote, to the Yamaha remote. He has already learned other remotes with no problem.

This gets to the fact that not all remote controls follow standardized protocols for IR. Unfortunately I am not intimate with all the code structures that are used by various companies, but I have run into the exact same problem you have experienced when using Pronto type remotes as well as learning remotes on a Crestron IR learning device. Rotel I know has some products out with IR codes that have caused problems.

The issue is not that the codes don't work or that your learning/universal remote sucks. It is that the two simply don't jive. I am not sure at all of a good way to help, but just want you to know that there may not actually be a solution with your remote. I simply can't be 100% certain of that without knowing more about the IR code formats used by the Dish remote and the Yamaha remote.

 

[MDS]

Dude, seriously... HE IS LEARNING THE CODE DIRECTLY FROM THE REMOTE.

The database of codes inside the remote do not work, he said that. He then said he is trying to learn from the Dish Network original remote, to the Yamaha remote. He has already learned other remotes with no problem.

I believe him when he said it doesn't work. What we don't know is if it doesn't work because the remote is faulty or because he isn't using the correct procedure to tell the remote that he is trying to use a SAT code and not a CABLE code.

If we assume he is doing the procedure correctly and the remote isn't faulty, then the ONLY reason it wouldn't at least accept the code is if it doesn't recognize the setup code - either because it doesn't exist in memory despite the fact that the manual lists it OR the remote is trying to find that setup code in it's 'cable' section of memory instead of satellite.

He didn't say he tried to learn from another remote, although he did confuse things in my mind when he said he pressed the 'learn' button when entering the setup code to use a pre-programmed code. Learning vs using a pre-programmed setup code are two different things. I wouldn't be suprised if you did hit the 'learn' button to enter a setup code as non-intuitive as that is, because Yamaha does tend to make simple things overly complicated, IMO.

If it can't learn from another remote, there are a whole lot of reasons why that could be and I mentioned them briefly already. It is entirely possible that it simply cannot recognize the IR protocol used by the original remote. It's also possible that it would recognize the protocol but is not seeing the entire command due to being too far apart from the original remote, flourescent lights interfering with the IR, low batteries, etc - dozens of possibilities.

The remote could very well be faulty, but I suspect it is more likely user error.

 

[MDS]

Read the rx-v2500 manual and ...

I decided to read the manual to see just how it needs to be done. I stand by my opinion that Yamaha makes simple things overly complicated and the manual proves that beyond a shadow of doubt.

Venger said: It's very straightforward - select the unit, hit the learn button, hit enter, enter the code, hit enter.

That is wrong, wrong, wrong according to the manual. Read pages 70-74 VERY carefully.

Page 72-73: Pre-programmed 'setup' codes:

1. To enter pre-programmed codes you must hold the 'learn' button down for more than 3 seconds otherwise the learning process will start. If you didn't hold the button down, it would be in learning mode instead of setup mode and would be expecting an IR signal - not a 4 digit setup code and that would certainly cause it to show NG.

2. You must use the left and right arrow buttons to change the library component to L:SAT. Remember I said you may not be properly telling it which code library to use? I bet you left it on L:CAB because you were assigning the code to the cab/sat button and thought the setup codes for cable and satellite were in the same library.

3. Press Enter. The window will show the current code or 0000 if none is present.

4. Enter the 4 digit code.

5. Press Enter. If NG appears, you did not enter a code it recognizes, either because you typed it wrong or you didn't set the correct code library in step 2 or you entered real learning mode because you didn't hold the learn button down for 3 seconds in step 1. All things I suggested.

6. Press 'learn' again - do not hold it down like you did to enter pre-programmed setup code mode.

See the Notes section for other caveats, which I also mentioned. Really guys, you should at least try my suggestions before dismissing them out of hand as it turns out all of my points were right on the money.

If you follow those steps exactly and it still doesn't work, then the remote is faulty. If it does work (accepts the code - it still may not control the device perfectly) then it was user error all along.

 

[Venger]

1 - yes, more than three seconds, did that - again, I followed the same procedure the correctly gave it the codes for my TV and DVD. It is ready for code entry - it shows the 4 digit code in the system, and accepts the four digit entry.

2 - BINGO. That makes 100% sense, and I bet is the entire problem. I assumed that the codes accepted on that input would natively be both cable and sat, since they are a joined group and label in the remote and on the receiver - but the library must be changed to choose between them.

Very goofy.

But great find - that's the problem, I'd almost guarantee it...

Venger