Yamaha Reciever with "Presence" option

[sghoughton]

Does anyone have a Yamaha amp with some presence speakers hooked up? I'm trying to decide if its worth getting some speakers for this use and would appreciate any comment on it. I have an HTR-5760 coming and i noticed it mentioned these but would like to hear peoples opinion on if its good or not.

thanks

steve

 

[zipper]

I tried it for a bit on my RX-V3300 & it was OK. I wouldn't spend a lot on speakers for that purpose. If you can get some sat's or cubes that match your mains w/o spending a bunch then it might be something to consider.

 

[Audioholics]

With the new Yamaha receivers there are a couple cool reasons to think about using them:

1) Obviously they widen up the sound stage for Yamaha DSP - very nice

2) If you have a projection screen, the presence channel can work with the "Dialogue Lift" function to bring the center channel sound out from the center of the screen rather than from below it (matching speaker tonality in this case helps a lot).

If you are mostly 1) then you can go with just about anything to start. If 2) is a concern, you can rely on Yamaha EQ to help the tonal match, but getting tonally-matched speakers is a much nicer thing to have. When I say tonally-matched I'm talking about trying to at least have something from the same company or that is using a similar driver technology.

If you don't use Yamaha DSP or you have very nice speakers to begin with then you may not find the presence channels make as much of an impact. I find that the better the room and speakers, the less dramatic impact the presence channels have. They are night and day in an average room with decent speakers. With excellent speakers in a good room they don't impact nearly as much - though still very cool as an enhancement.

 

[sghoughton]

Well, I"ve a projection screen, 95 inch image, athena as-b2's and as-c1 with a p400 sub up front, as-r1's on side and as-b1's in back. Room is about 18 feet by 12. Really cant put much up front though that would be beyond something smaller than the as-b1s. Have to keey it looking pretty up there

I wish you could buy some of the smaller athenas separately.

steve

 

[rschleicher]

Steve,

You didn't mention which Yamaha receiver or amp you have, but I noticed that you already have both surround and back-surround speakers hooked up. With most Yamaha receivers, you only have 7 amps built in, so you have to choose between using two of the amps for presence speakers, or for back-surrounds. (Unless of course you have a Z9, or whatever their highest-end receiver is, which has 9 amps built in.) Or, you can use an external power-amp for the front main speakers.

 

[sghoughton]

Its the HTR-5760

7.1 i think ( it should arrive tomorrow) so that might make a difference - i had read something like that but skimmed it over. Cant imagine wanting to give up the rears but since i havent had that going yet, who knows.

We'll see soon enough. Might have to do a little experimenting ( I have some extra athenas kicking around - futureshop here in canada had far too many tempting giveaways on them in the past couple of weeks)

I'll report back here with the findings when i do.

steve

 

[Audioholics]

I would take 7.1 over 5.1 + presence.

 

[SeenThatMovie2]

I have the htr-5760 myself. Tried the presence and didn't like it at all. You get the choice of the back speaker for 6.1 or 7.1 or the presence. Not both. Presence opened the front up a bit, made it louder too. My floorstanding Technic-saurs are loud enough. And the sound is so much richer and fuller, plus the surround effects are much more clear and separate with the rear surround. My preference is having the back speakers on instead of the presence. Plus, the receiver makes a click and the sound goes off a couple of seconds when you change from one sound field to another. I really hate that!

Not sure but seems like maybe the more high end receivers from Yamaha may have the option of "hearing" both back and presence simultaneously depending on the source material's signals. Seems it was in the booklet Yamaha sent me. That may be a mis-remembered reading on my part though.

It's bewildering to me as to why Yam. bothered to add the presence speaker feature, not sure what the advantage is, since it's an "either" "or" choice.

 

[xray]

Presense

Yamaha was the first to refine DSP by sending groups of engineers and technicians to Europe and the US in the early 80s recording every reflection and reverberation in the best of cathedrals, churches, jazz clubs and other venues unlike others who rely on logarithmic trickery in producing their DSP--that is why most experts regard Yamaha the best in this regard. "Presense" was originally called "early reflections" that provide that first quick sound after direct that reflected from the ceiling and/or near sides of the orchestra followed by the reverberations from the rear. Yamaha felt Presense enhanced the direct by adding clarity without blurring by placing small speakers about a yard outboard and above the mains. This feature shouldn't be scorned, for after all one normally hears music from the front of the hall and Presense adds by further filling it from that area. The other reflections add to the entire ambience telling us something of the hall size, construction of the reflecting interior and your seating position.
You wouldn't want to feel as if you are sitting between the violin and cello sections nor having the rear wall six feet behind you and Yamaha has provided the means of avoiding this assuming correct speaker placement and careful adjustment of DSP settings.

I discovered Presense in 1990 and wouldn't want to be without it but If I sound like I'm trying to sell it, I'm not, for I wish to upgrade my equipment and am puzzled (RESENTFUL) at the "either-or" of the new Yamaha receiver Rear vs Presense dilemma and doubt I'll buy one because of this. I've had both the 1500 and 3300 at home and couldn't work around the problem but if given one I'd elect Presense. I know nothing of its use with movies.

 

[parkerbender]

from what i understand, they wil do both, but not at the same time, i thought they kindof switched back and forth, i know on my 2500 you select which one has priority but i thought that since they're not doing much all of the time (back surround and presence) the one doing more was driven. maybe i just don't understand my manual though


i also havn't bought presence speakers, or back surrounds, i had a 6.1 setup, so i need three more matching, which is proving a pain to find.

 

[REWJR]

7.1 plus Dialogue lift center channel

The newest RX-V4600 has the ability ( flagship Z9 as well ) to run full 7.1 surround and the dialogue lift channels adding big screen triple speaker approach for dialogue .

http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/YamahaRXV4600.php

This will be my next receiver as I have a 110" Da-Lite HCCV screen to display my Hitachi TX-100 . With main center speaker below screen with 2 presence/augmented center speakers on each side of screen it should greatly enhance dialogue . The center channel can account for over 70% of movie information so upgrading this makes practical sense.

 

[Doug917]

I use the presence channels on the 2500 and must say they add a whole other diminsion to the front/side soundstages. I find I just forget about the sound and am totally drawn into the movie. As for not being able to use the surround back channels at the same time, I find little if any difference in sound with the Def Tech bipolars I use for these speakers unless you have a discrete signal (DTS-ES, DD-EX). The first night I brought the receiver home I thought the surround back channels were on as it sounded better than the Denon 5800 I used to have did with the surround back channels engaged. I was blown away the next morning after I caught up on some sleep and realized the surround back channels weren't on. I added the presence channels a few days later and the front/side image had much more space and cohesion. Being that I use a 92" 16x9 screen, the dialog lift is also a really nice feautre that does quite well at helping the dialog come from the right area of the screen. I could live without surround back channels, but am I now hooked on the presence channels. Also REWJR, I read that review on the RX-V4600 and do not actually see any place that says anything about 9.1. To me it looks like it would have the same limitations of the 2500 of 7.1. If you have definite information this is the case, please point me to it as this would be of interest to me.

 

[REWJR]

"To me it looks like it would have the same limitations of the 2500 of 7.1. If you have definite information this is the case, please point me to it as this would be of interest to me."

I have emailed Yamaha for clarification but I suspect your right and only the flagship Z9 with 9.1 has it .

It is a shame because all they need to to do was offer presence dialogue lift channel output and I could have used a seperate reciever to power the extra speakers...

Well there is always CEDIA this fall and I can wait for a newer Yamaha with 4 HDMI inputs and 7.1 plus extra dialogue lift feature channels that work at same time ...

 

[kjonna]

hi i'm new to this home theater thing and i just got a yamaha 5860 like 2 days ago and all i have is a center speaker and front, and i was just confused about this presence thing, so what ya'll are saying is that you can't have the presence speaker and the surround back speaker working at the same time?

 

[jcPanny]

Presence OR surround back

hi i'm new to this home theater thing and i just got a yamaha 5860 like 2 days ago and all i have is a center speaker and front, and i was just confused about this presence thing, so what ya'll are saying is that you can't have the presence speaker and the surround back speaker working at the same time?

Kjonna,
You are correct, your 5860 can use 2 of its amp channels to power the presence speakers OR the surround back speakers. It is possible to have both presence and surround backs hooked up, but only one set will be powered at a time.
I would try out your surround back speakers as pressence and see which you prefer.

 

[newfmp3]

Yeah, not being able to have the presence channels and 7.1 on at the same time with the 4600 is a huge HUGE mistake by Yamaha.

I HOPE YOU ARE READING YAMAHA!!!

BIG BIG BIG mistake

It could have been a major advantage and selling point over the hk/denon products.

I guess the same guy that decided on that was the same one that decided on the lack of hdmi up-conversion. He should be fired.

 

[Doug917]

I was perusing an issue of Home Theater Mag last night and saw an advertisment for the 1600/2600. I checked out their website, but as usual it is behind other media. I was wondering if maybe they corrected this massive oversight on one of these models. The channels don't have to be powered, but they do need to give us the pre/outs for both surround back and presence simultaneously regardless.

 

[Jack N]

“With most Yamaha receivers, you only have 7 amps built in” I need some clarification on this. I was under the impression that there was only 1 amp that powered multiple channels. Can somebody clarify this, one way or the other ?

“Technic-saurs” ! LOL I haven’t heard that one before, but I wouldn’t be too quick to slam them if they’re of the old SB-7XXX series. They’re still capable of putting away a lot of upper mid-range speakers made today even though they’re a quarter of a century old.

I too own a 3300, which plays all the channels and the presence speakers simultaneously. And I too have been waiting to upgrade because of the “preference” problem. I know the Z9 is capable of playing all channels, however it’s missing HDMI, and I just don’t want to spend that kind of money on a receiver anyway.

Just an FYI for REWJR - In the full review (not the press release) on the 4600 , it states that it does not play everything simultaneously. You are correct in that the Z9 does.

Like everybody else, I’m waiting to see if Yamaha has corrected the presence problem on the 2600. If it hasn’t been corrected, I’ll still be waiting to upgrade. We’re not fussy Yamaha, we just want it all ! LOL

 

[Jack N]

Sorry, I forgot to contribute towards the original question in the thread. For me personally, I listen to music more than I watch movies – and I’m particularly fond of the 8 channel stereo mode. So for me, it was worth spending quite a bit more on the presence channels speakers than most people do. Don’t quote me on this, but on the music side of the 3300, I don’t think the presence channels get used except for the 8 channel mode. So if you’re not into all channel stereo or if you watch more movies than listen to music, I’d go with the recommendations that others have made about using these channels, but not spending much money on speakers.

 

[SawThatMovie2]

“Technic-saurs” ! LOL I haven’t heard that one before, but I wouldn’t be too quick to slam them if they’re of the old SB-7XXX series. They’re still capable of putting away a lot of upper mid-range speakers made today even though they’re a quarter of a century old.

Yep I still have them too, although they are the A50 floorstanders. Picked 'em up in about 90-91 as part of a package where you get the components altogether. Everything works except the receiver. On my 3rd one now, a yammie 5760....which totally rocks! Have thought about replacing them, and about 5 years ago looked at some JBL studio floorstanders, but couldn't justify coughing up the bux when I liked what I had. Next time I upgrade the speakers will be in one fell swoop...all of them. not piecemeal like I have now.

itJust an FYI for REWJR - In the full review (not the press release) on the 4600 , it states that it does not play everything simultaneously. You are correct in that the Z9 does.

Like everybody else, I’m waiting to see if Yamaha has corrected the presence problem on the 2600. If it hasn’t been corrected, I’ll still be waiting to upgrade. We’re not fussy Yamaha, we just want it all ! LOL

yeah, that sounds great, but again bux is the major factor right now, with downsizing of jobs/wages where I work..... another upgrade will be a long time away for me.