Yamaha Aventage CX-A5100 Pre/Pro vs RX-A3050 Atmos/DTS:X Receiver

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
For the demanding home theater enthusiast, Yamaha has introduced the Aventage CX-A5100 AV preamp processor. With Dolby Atmos and DTS:X support, this 64-bit powerhouse can seemingly do it all. With an array of speaker configuration options, you will be ready to support a full 11.2 or 7.2.4 system for the latest immersive audio. From high resolution music to serving as the hub of a whole house wireless music system via their new MusicCast system to full HDMI 2.0a support, this new pre-pro from Yamaha has all the hallmarks of being a real winner. The CX-A5100 will surely meet all of today's HD audio and video formats now and the foreseeable future.



In this preview article we give a detailed comparison of the CX-A5100 Pre/Pro vs Yamaha's flagship RX-A3050 Aventage AV Receiver. Just what do you get in the pre/pro that the RX-A3050 receiver doesn't provide?

Read: Yamaha Aventage CX-A5100 Dolby Atmos/DTS:X AV Preamp Preview

to find out all of the details...
 
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J

jeffca

Junior Audioholic
The only real knock against this unit is that their "room correction" is just parametric EQ and that's it. Audessy and Dirac both work in the time domain as well as the frequency domain. Dirac and DEQX go so far as to correct the speaker's impulse response as well. If you want room correction on your mains, you'd need to by something from MiniDSP, etc.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
The only real knock against this unit is that their "room correction" is just parametric EQ and that's it. Audessy and Dirac both work in the time domain as well as the frequency domain. Dirac and DEQX go so far as to correct the speaker's impulse response as well. If you want room correction on your mains, you'd need to by something from MiniDSP, etc.
Or not do an EQ correction at all above the room transition frequency. ALL auto-EQ systems are dicey when trying to correct above bass frequencies since an omnidirectional mic does NOT approximate our hearing.

I'd personally take a manual PEQ that goes down to 20Hz or lower for all channels over virtually any auto-EQ solution on the market. Start with good speakers and decent room acoustics before applying some auto-EQ system.
 
TheoN

TheoN

Audioholics Contributing Writer
@jeffca and @gene from what I understood, the new CA-5100 will have a 3D microphone to be able to discern speaker placement along an X, Y, and Z axis. This new directional microphone is necessary for the Dolby Atmos and especially DTS:X implementations. It will very interesting to see if this approach makes a difference vs. the omnidirectional mic Gene correctly alludes to. The ability to do PEQ down to 20Hz would really have been a welcome feature.

Bottom line, it will certainly be interesting to see how this measures up.
 
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N

nirmv

Audiophyte
Hi,

Is it known already if the YPAO in the RX-A3050 and in the 5100 gets the speaker locations in the room, and feed them to DTS:X and Dobly Atmos processors?
Or it is just used for echo cancelling and such, and for the CINEMA DSP 3D - Yamaha's own proprietary "sound enhancer".
If so it's only relevant if you put presence speakers according to the CINEMA DSP 3D requirements, and not for ceiling or Atmos speakers configurations, to be used with DTS:X and Atmos new releases...
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
YES! This is EXACTLY the news I was hoping for. Glad I held off from getting the (already impressive) CX-A5000.
 
B

Boiling Frog

Audiophyte
HI,
apologies for my ignorance, but what impact will the different output impedance have with regards to the amplification stage?
I was intending to use a Denon AVC A1D that I already own for amplification of the main 5 channels with the CXA5100 and active speakers for the atmos speakers.
Is that feasible or does the Denon require 'consumer' impedance inputs?

I should say that I was going this route as:
a I already own the Denon AVC A1D and believe it has a good amplifier section that I would like to utilise
b It avoids the immediate expense of buying an amplifier to accompany the CXA
c It means I can access the additional features of the CXA for the same initial outlay as the RXA3050

Thank you for any guidance
 
L

Latent

Full Audioholic
HI,
apologies for my ignorance, but what impact will the different output impedance have with regards to the amplification stage?
If it has a lower output impedance than expected it should not cause you any problems and in fact makes the device compatible with more amplifiers. Ideally you want the input impedance of your ampifier to be equal or higher than the output impedance of your Pre-amp. If it's not it may cause problems. Also note that the input impedance of the inputs has no relation to the output impedance (4-16 ohm etc) of the amplifier as the pre-amp->Amplifier section is separate from the amplifier->Speaker section.

looking at the specs the CX-A5100 has an output impedance of 470 Ohm (not 470 kOhm mentioned above) and your AVC A1D has input impedance on the multi channel inputs of 47 kohm (47,000 Ohm). This makes it 100 times higher on load compared to source which is ideal and won't cause any problems.

However you have to look at the voltage as well possibly. The RCA outputs on CX-A5100 are rated at 1V/470ohm (the XLA balanced output is 2V/470 ohm but you don't have XLA on A1D). But the RCA inputs for multi channel in are rated at 200mV/47 kOhm. What this may mean is that when you would have to watch you don't drive the amp too high and it may cause volume DB level mismatch problems. There may be a way to set the Pre-amp to this lower voltage output and I'm sure someone with more experience than me would know the answer to this. Note the MX-A5000 matching amplifier specifies 1V/47kOhm input from RCA.

Other thing to watch out for is the A1D is not really well matched with the Pre-Amp as it is a full receiver with all the digital wizardry etc when you want the cleanest analog path from your Pre-Amp to your amplifiers. You may be able to turn on Analog Bypass on the A1D to get close to what you want but it may not be ideal. If it does any processing, tone control, EQ, A/D-D/A conversions then its basically throwing away the good quality components and expensive DAC's you just paid for out the door and using the ones in your old Receiver. Also you have to set it to the the right fixed volume setting and make sure it doesn't change. This is all a lot easier with a dedicated Amplifier.

Edit: Wouldn't it be nice if you could just rip 50% of the guts out of a good old receiver like this and just wire the raw amplifier inputs to the outside. If only it were that simple. also on a side note wouldn't it be cool if they made Pre-amps/processors for all this new sound tech that didn't output analog. Just output a few HDMI or digital coax/optical. One HDMI would go to the screen and do ARC/control plus 4k video out. and the other HDMI's would output HDMI multichanel digital audio for up to 7.1 channels. The 11.1 or so of processed channels would be assignable to these HDMI and other digital outputs as required so you can then use 2 or more HDMI receivers to drive your speakers. Turn off all processing and fix the volume on them and they just become digital multi channel DAC's and Amplifier units. Add more and reduce them to servicing less channels each to increase system power and headroom or bi/tri amp your speakers. Each output path may have a slight output delay and so Processor has to measure and adjust for these. If you had no old analog devices for inputs the processor could be digital only with pretty much HDMI in and outs only. Also you could setup chaining so you can combine two processors and it will do 22/33 instead of 11 channels etc. My dream all falls down when you run at low volumes though because unless you are able to output in 32bit instead of 16/24bit at low volume outputs the sound will be lower resolution as the volume control reduces the digital wave form directly. Could solve this with RS232/Ethernet control of volume for a list of standard supported receivers so it always outputs a reference level.
 
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B

Boiling Frog

Audiophyte
Well, after having the CX A5100 in my loft for the last two months I'm finally getting a second-hand MX A5000 to mate it with this week. Reading your comments made me realise that going through all the faff to set up the CX A5100 through the AVC A1D would really not do it justice, so I decided to get the matching amp.
I've managed to get the two for under 2700 quid so pretty happy about that, but wishing I had a use for the still excellent amp of the AVC A1D.
Should be a fun couple of weeks of tweaking and enjoying Yammy's cutting edge offering.
 
L

Latent

Full Audioholic
Good luck with your new setup.

One interesting thing I did find at a local audio repair place where I got some second hand speakers was a old AVR they had a Tech convert to a multichannel amp.

http://www.nrpavs.co.nz/DenonAVC-A10SE.htm

It's a lower model unit than the A1D. They have removed most of the ports and disabled some things. Not sure if they have completely bypassed the pre-amp or just left it to work as it would have originally with the mulitchannel input or not. But interesting idea anyway.
 
G

Gys Florian

Enthusiast
Hi,

Firmware 2.04 is out for Yamaxa Preamp CX-A5100 : it does add the capability of correcting frequency below 31Hz for subwoofer ;-)

Enjoy!
 
Spock7of9

Spock7of9

Enthusiast
I would like to piggyback off this thread. I am interested in getting Yamaha CX A5100 or a DENON AVR-X7200WA. I do have a 3 ch B&K amp and a Adcom 2 ch amp (both at 200W/ch). Both Yamaha and Denon are about the same price for me. I want to run an Atmos setup. (5.2.4 or 7.2.4) so If I purchased the Yamaha I would need an additional amp. If I went with Denon I would not need the extra amp. My Question is how do these two units compare as far as A/V Processors and would I be able to allocate the onboard amps on the Denon AVR-X7200WA for the back and ceiling channels and let my b&K amp work the fronts.

Thanks
 
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F

frans callebaut

Audioholic Intern
hello,
i have a yamaha cx-a5100, but i can only setup a 5.1 system, so i ask if i can with the dts neural-x position simulate the presence of height speakers(which i don't have and cannot place in ln my room, neither can i place upwards speakers upon my excisting speakers).
kindregards,

frans callebaut
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
hello,
i have a yamaha cx-a5100, but i can only setup a 5.1 system, so i ask if i can with the dts neural-x position simulate the presence of height speakers(which i don't have and cannot place in ln my room, neither can i place upwards speakers upon my excisting speakers).
kindregards,

frans callebaut
There isn't a replacement for the real speakers, but many have and enjoy simulated height speakers as you describe.
 
F

frans callebaut

Audioholic Intern
hello,

will the yamaha cx-a5100 receive a dts virtual-x firmware update ?
kind regards,
frans callebaut
 
A

alex30

Enthusiast
Hi,
In the fourth paragraph of the article it says;
"When first introduced back in 2015, the CX-A5100 didn't come cheap at a nickel short of $3k."
Should it say "the CX-A5000" ?
Great review of what sounds like a good product but, for me , the poor bass management is a deal breaker. I'm not sufficiently skilled to do it with an add on and need an auto function.
 
Bookmark

Bookmark

Full Audioholic
The 5100 was out at the tail end of 2015, I bought mine at the tail end of 2016. It was at the time, I believe, the only Processor/AVR which had all the features in place and not as was the case for a number of others, "awaiting update" or next model. It has also since I purchased it had a number of updates, 5 or 6 I believe, which included HLG update for passthrough and bass management down to 15Hz.

I do not believe the 5100 is any worse that than the others regarding bass management. It just maybe a bit more hands on to dial in. That said they all have issues of one sort or another, so swings and roundabouts. Just have look on the dedicated threads for the issues. Also it's probably the cheapest of the top tier equivalents from Arcam, Anthem, Denon, Marantz or Nad.

The 5200 may be out tail end of this year, many believed it would be last. Gene's suggestions are not unreasonable, although I think he will be waiting a long time for the redirection of the bass to the fronts and any inclusion of Auro.

For myself I think HDMI 2.1 is a given although the standard is not finalised and its only real benefit for now will be eARC, the usefulness of which is entirely in the hands of App, TV/Projector manufacturers. Also 6 overheads is highly likely instead of 4 but since we already have the XLR outs for the others it probably means losing something in the process, possibly the component outputs. I would like to see a significant update to the A5000 though.


I do not regret my purchase and am eminently happy with the results and look forward to future potential updates :). We are a ways away from 8K so I will not be losing too much sleep over 2.1 and there are other means to overcome eARC. 6 Overheads is not on my list of updates, I have yet to add the existing 4.
 
F

frans callebaut

Audioholic Intern
hello,
the most recent update i have found is the 2.11 which mentions nothing about dts virtual-x.
kind regards,
frans callebaut
 
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