Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The main point of my first post was my view that a 'better' room correction system like Dirac did not make a really big difference when compared to YPAO. Floyd Toole and others have pointed out that the hearing system operates in frequency bands which minimise the perceived level of sound. Getting it roughly right is usually good enough for things to sound good. :)

I've noticed that several posters on this thread were happily using the YPAO Low Frequency setting, which does hardly anything to correct the room. Though running YPAO does the most important thing - which is to set the timing on all the speakers.

Though, after saying that the Dirac didn't make a big audible difference to the frequency response, why the hell did I spend thousands on it? Am I a complete divot?? :D It pleases me to think I'm not totally daft. Dirac does do something else to the sound.

Now this is totally off topic to the A8A but here is an experiment. I connected a PC directly to my DDRC24 Dirac box, which then output to an amp in 'pure direct' mode to my right lounge speaker. I then ran frequency sweeps in REW , one with Dirac on and the other with no room correction at all.

View attachment 55972

Now my right speaker is flat to +/-5dB (80Hz-20kHz) at my listening distance of 11 feet without correction. Dirac changes that to +/-3dB. Though very difficult to distinguish by ear. So it isn't that which makes things sound different withDirac On or Off.

This is the Impulse display without any room correction -

View attachment 55973
And here with Dirac ON -

View attachment 55974


Now I don't know exactly what they are doing to the signal to get that difference, but it does actually sound clearer. :)
Well, I do hope every brand will offer Dirac. Will be one less headache. :D
 
Majorusa

Majorusa

Junior Audioholic
Initially I was waiting for the new Onkyo TX-RZ50. Then I pulled the plug on the Yamaha A8A. Today I could not be happier for my decision but sad about what is happening to Onkyo. It filled for bankruptcy with liabilities of about 24 million dollars.
 
Majorusa

Majorusa

Junior Audioholic
That sounds like a cable issue. Are you using at least 18gbps certified cables? Setting the HDCP to 1.4 is a step backward and you need it at Auto as we are at HDCP version 2.3. It's not a bad idea to go all out with Ultra Certified 40gbps cables at this point to avoid any issues and for any next gen gaming consoles or PCs depending on the TV used in the setup.
Not a cable issue. I have 2.0x certified cables. I exchanged the cable. Same behavior. Moving the DHCP to 1.4 resolves the issue.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Check the TV HDMI port settings. Different makers have different designations for setting the ports to HDCP 2.2/2.3(UHD Deep Color/HDR) support. If they are not set to accept the newer HDCP spec, issues can arise. The 1.4 spec does not support HDR.

If ports and cables all check out, I’d say it is a firmware bug. Setting a device port to 1.4 should only be necessary when using older 1.4 devices as some will not pass an image at all if set otherwise. You shouldn’t be having issues with newer 4K HDR devices and the Auto setting.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Initially I was waiting for the new Onkyo TX-RZ50. Then I pulled the plug on the Yamaha A8A. Today I could not be happier for my decision but sad about what is happening to Onkyo. It filled for bankruptcy with liabilities of about 24 million dollars.
How many times have we heard about Onkyo going bankrupt?

I guess Dirac Live didn't do much to save Onkyo.
 
P

PacketofCrisps

Audioholic Intern
Was just watching Genes "YPAO Room correction Finally Works" video, I noticed he said he was impressed by the amp section of A6A powering his towers, said it was neck and neck with the Denon A110 integrated amp, that is some high praise, I have the lessor A4A but I have been very impressed by the stereo performance, really nice balanced sound, and deep soundstage, I don't feel I'm missing out not having a dedicated stereo amp which helps keep my setup simple, I agree that I think these amps handle low ohms output quite well, the was the first thing I noticed upgrading to this amp, I really feel the power supply is helping in that regard, maybe the high slew amplification is actually more than just a marketing gimmick and it really is improving transient response?

I was reading that the late Charles Hansen used to say that an amplifier is basically a power supply design in which the supply is being modulated by an external signal, I kind of like that way of thinking.
 
OldAndSlowDev

OldAndSlowDev

Full Audioholic
So I assume that the RX-A8A could even be a little bit better with better wiring and better capacitors... I can hear it !
It's 0.00000.3% less distorted !
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Field Marshall
So I assume that the RX-A8A could even be a little bit better with better wiring and better capacitors... I can hear it !
It's 0.00000.3% less distorted !
It is better, the main Caps are 22,000 x 2 ufs that's what they put in a stand alone amp. Bigger power supply, plus ESS pro chips for all channels, more power at the rails. Umm yeah you do get a lot more with your RX-A8A.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It is better, the main Caps are 22,000 x 2 ufs that's what they put in a stand alone amp. Bigger power supply, plus ESS pro chips for all channels, more power at the rails. Umm yeah you do get a lot more with your RX-A8A.
Makes me want to buy the RX-A8! :D

I still won't sell you my ATI AT2005 amp, though, gotta have that for my 10 subs! :D
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
It is better, the main Caps are 22,000 x 2 ufs that's what they put in a stand alone amp. Bigger power supply, plus ESS pro chips for all channels, more power at the rails. Umm yeah you do get a lot more with your RX-A8A.
It seems to be well built for an AVR. But I find that it's SILLY FOR YAMAHA to quote THD at 10% for a single channel. Who wants to listen to clipping distorted sound?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It seems to be well built for an AVR. But I find that it's SILLY FOR YAMAHA to quote THD at 10% for a single channel. Who wants to listen to clipping distorted sound?
You mean the Maximum Power Output 1Ch Driven at 1kHz, 10% THD, 8-ohm = 220W.

Maximum Power Output 1Ch Driven at 1kHz, 0.9% THD, 8-ohm = 185W.

Not much difference between 185W vs 220W anyway. So yeah, they should just stop at 0.9% or 1.0% THD, instead of showing the 10% THD. :D
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Field Marshall
You mean the Maximum Power Output 1Ch Driven at 1kHz, 10% THD, 8-ohm = 220W.

Maximum Power Output 1Ch Driven at 1kHz, 0.9% THD, 8-ohm = 185W.

Not much difference between 185W vs 220W anyway. So yeah, they should just stop at 0.9% or 1.0% THD, instead of showing the 10% THD. :D
Aren't they all at that point.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Maybe I can explain a little more clearly. I can see why it doesn't seem to make sense. :)

If I were to do a REW frequency sweep of the Dirac and also the non-Dirac YPAO, then applied the 'psychoacoustic' smoothing option there would be little difference between them. Yes, the raw Dirac is much smoother but doesn't actually sound much smoother due to the way our hearing works.

What isn't shown by the frequency graphs is the impulse response. I will quote from the Dirac website -

Impulse response correction
A loudspeaker’s impulse response affects clarity, detail, and all spatial aspects of the sound. Dirac Live® is unique in that it corrects the impulse response throughout the listening area, not just at a single point. By focusing on consistent problems across the measurement positions and correcting only these anomalies, Dirac Live® can achieve a faster decay time. Typically, the power ratio between the direct wave and the tail (later-arriving echoes) is improved by 6 dB or more, resulting in a vastly improved overall sound.

This illustration is from the Dirac website, it shows the normal pulse followed by the corrected one. I've seen the same thing happen with my measurements in REW -

View attachment 55952

It makes everything sound crisper. I didn't like the sound at first but then grew used to it. Dialogue is clearer in drama stuff. Music is also changed - often for the better - but with some music it seems to remove some 'atmosphere'.

I've read a lot about Dirac but only a few people seem to mention this - to me - blindingly obvious difference in sound.

I was actually delighted by the sound of my A8A before I had the Dirac option. So perhaps better to ignore my post and stay happy. :D
I have a minidsp 2x4hd in two of my systems without the Dirac. I use them specifically to EQ multiple subs for each system and provide them a house curve, the house curve being the Harmon curve. YPAO cannot EQ the subs nearly as well as REW. When I run YPAO, I turn off my subs and let it EQ the mids and the highs. I've been fairly successful with this approach.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I have a minidsp 2x4hd in two of my systems without the Dirac. I use them specifically to EQ multiple subs for each system and provide them a house curve, the house curve being the Harmon curve. YPAO cannot EQ the subs nearly as well as REW. When I run YPAO, I turn off my subs and let it EQ the mids and the highs. I've been fairly successful with this approach.
Yeah, I think what you, @PENG and some others are doing with the OUTBOARD PEQ for multiple-subs and/or Dirac Room Correction is a good solution without having to spend thousands of dollars on new AVR/AVP.
 
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