Yamaha A-S301 vs Yamaha A-S501

[jsf0656]

looking at these 2 integrated amps with a difference of 25W and all other features the same is the performance of these about the same or would the extra 25W be noticed when powering my JBL 230s?

 

[KEW]

I've seen those 230's go for some pretty deep discounts, making them one of the best "bang for the buck" speakers out there!
At 88dB, those speakers are pretty efficient, so you are probably fine with the 60WPC A-S301.
How far will your listening position be from the speakers and how loud do you listen?

Hopefully someone will post a link to a calculator that will give you an idea of how many watts will result in how many dB for your situation.

However, if you want my (unsolicited) advice, since the 230 are spec'ed to only go down to 52Hz, I'd be looking at adding a Dayton SUB 1200 (link at bottom of post) down the road to round out the bottom.
Properly done, you would crossover to the SUB 1200 at around 80 to 100Hz with the 230's. However, with either of these Yamaha's, you would not be able to pick your crossover point.
Consequently, I would get an Onkyo TX-8270 from Accessories4less for $350 which will allow you to better accommodate a subwoofer by setting the crossover point via the receiver. This has the added benefit of not making your speakers play the low end of their range which will reduce the power required from the amplifier as well as eliminating one of the weaknesses of your speakers (trying to play low and loud)!

This stereo receiver also has wi-fi networking capability so you can stream Pandora or Spotify (etc) straight from the receiver assuming your have a wireless network to pull from (or you can plug it straight from your modem). You can also cast to it from your phone or tablet! HDMI connection to allow you to readily connect a TV (if you like).

Generally, short of going with a full blown AVR for a surround system, I think this receiver does a lot to future-proof you should you decide to stream music or add a subwoofer, etc. And I expect it saves a little money to boot.

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8270/onkyo-tx-8270-2-x-100-watts-a/v-stereo-receiver-w/hdmi/1.html

https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1200-12-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B00669L3HS/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=174225300933&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9010844&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=5240320708502051446&hvtargid=aud-648278611385:kwd-1233723720&keywords=sub-1200&qid=1554752148&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Doesn't seem like much of a difference. I don't think the power difference is significant 60W vs 85W into 8 ohms.

 

[PENG]

looking at these 2 integrated amps with a difference of 25W and all other features the same is the performance of these about the same or would the extra 25W be noticed when powering my JBL 230s?

85 watts would give you about 1.5 dB more sound pressure level (SPL). Every time you double the distance you lose about 6 dB so in this case your seating distance is more critical. The 501's transformer may be only slightly larger but it has almost twice as much storage capacitance. My vote is for the S-501. An AVR at discounted price will perform better in every way including power output, but I understand a lot of people don't want to use a multichannel receiver for two channel purposes.

 

[PENG]

I've seen those 230's go for some pretty deep discounts, making them one of the best "bang for the buck" speakers out there!
At 88dB, those speakers are pretty efficient, so you are probably fine with the 60WPC A-S301.

Unless I miss read something, they measured only 85.5 dB on S&V's bench.

 

[jsf0656]

seating distance is about 10-12ft and I like music medium to a little bit higher. I listen to -10 to-15db on my Yamaha avr. I want to switch to a integrated amp with 2ch for music with a sub output and connections for optical and coaxial for tv listening. I have a klipsch 10in sub now which I like its punchiness! I really like the JBL 230s!

 

[jsf0656]

85 watts would give you about 1.5 dB more sound pressure level (SPL). Every time you double the distance you lose about 6 dB so in this case your seating distance is more critical. The 501's transformer may be only slightly larger but it has almost twice as much storage capacitance. My vote is for the S-501. An AVR at discounted price will perform better in every way including power output, but I understand a lot of people don't want to use a multichannel receiver for two channel purposes.

I figured the integrated amp would be better since I only use 2 of the channels and seems like the avr would be wasted usefulness.

 

[PENG]

seating distance is about 10-12ft and I like music medium to a little bit higher. I listen to -10 to-15db on my Yamaha avr. I want to switch to a integrated amp with 2ch for music with a sub output and connections for optical and coaxial for tv listening. I have a klipsch 10in sub now which I like its punchiness!

For medium loud the 501 will do and have adequate headroom.

 

[jsf0656]

thanks a lot as I was leaning toward the 501. am I thinking about this all wrong in the sense that the integrated amp would be better for 2ch vs the avr with 5ch. I mean am I taking 2 steps back and 1 step forward in my thinking as my avr has all of the tings I was looking for already?

 

[KEW]

Unless I miss read something, they measured only 85.5 dB on S&V's bench.

I pulled the 88dB from JBL's website.
Disappointing to see they are exaggerating their specifications.

 

[KEW]

I figured the integrated amp would be better since I only use 2 of the channels and seems like the avr would be wasted usefulness.

The economics of scale are such that an AVR will get you "more for less"!
Even if you will only use 2 channels, a 5 or 7 channel AVR works out better monetarily.
I recommended a 2 channel receiver because I assumed you might be looking for simplicity.
When I first got back in the hobby, I used an AVR as a stereo unit with no TV connected. It required having the manual which spelled out the menu system on hand as I was making adjustments. Once I connected a TV, I realized how much easier menu navigation became.
The 2 channel Onkyo I recommended kind of splits the difference between a full AVR and an integrated amp (which does not have set-up options like the Onkyo's bass management).

 

[PENG]

thanks a lot as I was leaning toward the 501. am I thinking about this all wrong in the sense that the integrated amp would be better for 2ch vs the avr with 5ch. I mean am I taking 2 steps back and 1 step forward in my thinking as my avr has all of the tings I was looking for already?

You are not wrong at all conceptually. In practice though, integrated amps such as the A-S501, even 801 actually use some of the same components found in AVRs, such as LSI chips including the ones for volume control that pretty much determine the overall sound quality.

A comparable avr would cost a lot more than the 501 through 801, but the one year old model such as Denon's x3400h/x3500h could be found for as low as $599. They have much better spec DACs, more powerful if only used for 2 channels, and have preouts, better bass management and room EQ. If it isn't for the available discounts, it would be much harder to consider them for 2 ch use.

 

[j_garcia]

If there is a question, I always say go with the higher wattage. 25W doesn't seem like a lot, but it still likely translates to some better parts internally in that amp chain. If it was more like 225 vs 200, you would not notice, but at lower ratings (which it sounds like these are honest too) it will show up where you WON'T notice it, as a bit more headroom. That is the thing with more wattage, it won't sound different at the same listening levels.

I agree that Bass management alone is one of the big reasons to go with an AVR though. I also agree that going from an AVR to an Integrated to "improve" sound isn't going to deliver the sort of difference you're expecting.

 

[jsf0656]

The economics of scale are such that an AVR will get you "more for less"!
Even if you will only use 2 channels, a 5 or 7 channel AVR works out better monetarily.
I recommended a 2 channel receiver because I assumed you might be looking for simplicity.
When I first got back in the hobby, I used an AVR as a stereo unit with no TV connected. It required having the manual which spelled out the menu system on hand as I was making adjustments. Once I connected a TV, I realized how much easier menu navigation became.
The 2 channel Onkyo I recommended kind of splits the difference between a full AVR and an integrated amp (which does not have set-up options like the Onkyo's bass management).

you are right in that I was looking at making things simplified and not having to do as much adjustments and I also had not thought about not having the bass adjustment as in a avr. another thing I didn't think about was not having the ypao mic with the avr which after I remeasured with the new JBLs my system sounded so much better! everything that has been said makes a lot of sense to me now and thanks to everyones input!

 

[KEW]

you are right in that I was looking at making things simplified and not having to do as much adjustments and I also had not thought about not having the bass adjustment as in a avr. another thing I didn't think about was not having the ypao mic with the avr which after I remeasured with the new JBLs my system sounded so much better! everything that has been said makes a lot of sense to me now and thanks to everyones input!

To emphasize the point, being able to relieve the speakers from having to play the lowest part of their range is usually very beneficial. Especially with a two way speaker! Generally, in a two way speaker, the range of frequencies the mid-woofer is required to reproduce is usually pretty demanding. since the upper end is in the midrange where our ears are most sensitive, the designer will usually make sure it sounds good up there and make any needed compromises to the low end. Being able to drop the signal to the 230's at 80 or 100Hz relieves them of that.
So, you are talking YPAO in the past tense, does that mean you already have a suitable AVR to use? If so, cool!

 

[jsf0656]

To emphasize the point, being able to relieve the speakers from having to play the lowest part of their range is usually very beneficial. Especially with a two way speaker! Generally, in a two way speaker, the range of frequencies the mid-woofer is required to reproduce is usually pretty demanding. since the upper end is in the midrange where our ears are most sensitive, the designer will usually make sure it sounds good up there and make any needed compromises to the low end. Being able to drop the signal to the 230's at 80 or 100Hz relieves them of that.
So, you are talking YPAO in the past tense, does that mean you already have a suitable AVR to use? If so, cool!

yes I have a Yamaha RX-V475 and its done well and sounds good. I bought it at A4L about 5 years ago.

 

[KEW]

yes I have a Yamaha RX-V475 and its done well and sounds good. I bought it at A4L about 5 years ago.

I'd say run it 'til it dies or they come up with a new compelling feature you "must have" (IME, that is rare)!
What you don't want to do is buy a new AVR today (when you don't really need it) then find out two years from now that the new AI and Alexa/Google stuff turned into something miraculous (I doubt it, but the best example I could think of for a new gee-whiz) that you really want to have!

 

[PENG]

yes I have a Yamaha RX-V475 and its done well and sounds good. I bought it at A4L about 5 years ago.

If your jbl 230 is the jbl studio 230, it was reviewed by S&V in 2014:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/jbl-studio-2-speaker-system-test-bench

Its FR looked very reasonable, but if you listen loud sitting 10-12 ft, then as KEW suggested, set XO to 80-100 Hz (I would say 100 Hz for best result) and forget about the A-S501 as you would end up spending the extra money for no audible gain. The RX-V475 actually has the same vol control/preamp chip as the A-S501 so you do the math..

By the way, you mentioned "seating distance is about 10-12ft and I like music medium to a little bit higher. I listen to -10 to-15db on my Yamaha avr. " That may be loud for you, but you are no where near "0", so it doesn't sound like you need more power after all. Setting XO higher to 100 Hz should let the 230 sing better, not that they are stressed at vol -15.

 

[jsf0656]

If your jbl 230 is the jbl studio 230, it was reviewed by S&V in 2014:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/jbl-studio-2-speaker-system-test-bench

Its FR looked very reasonable, but if you listen loud sitting 10-12 ft, then as KEW suggested, set XO to 80-100 Hz (I would say 100 Hz for best result) and forget about the A-S501 as you would end up spending the extra money for no audible gain. The RX-V475 actually has the same vol control/preamp chip as the A-S501 so you do the math..

By the way, you mentioned "seating distance is about 10-12ft and I like music medium to a little bit higher. I listen to -10 to-15db on my Yamaha avr. " That may be loud for you, but you are no where near "0", so it doesn't sound like you need more power after all. Setting XO higher to 100 Hz should let the 230 sing better, not that they are stressed at vol -15.


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I have to admit...that's good advice. why fix it when its not broke. btw I did set the crossover to 100 after ypao and it sounds good! I guess I got to thinking ahead of myself. the 230s were a steal refurbished on ebay and my system sounds good to me since I added the klipsch 10 in sub.

 

[M Code]

We actually have (3) pairs of the JBL230s'. 2 pairs still brand new in boxes. Overall a nice sounding, flat response, but needs a mild bottom-end kick... To sound right..
The Northridge series was enhanced by Dr.Toole's R&D team, also note there was a spin-off series using the same drivers/acoustics sold under the HK brand exclusively for Circuit City.

Just my $0.02...