WOW! Yamaha 5960 slays my Pioneer 1015TX

[Bluesmoke]

I'm a big fan of the 1015. It was my first receiver and I bought it after numerous recommendations. I'm running a full Polk setup. I love the sound of the Pioneer until - I tried the 5960 from Yamaha. Main reason I got it was because I really needed the extra optical for my Xbox 360 and Ipod connection. Holy hell! It felt like I was hit with a tidalwave of sound that just opened up. The sound presence and immersion was noticably more pronouced than I remembered. I plugged the 1015 back in. Not the same. Went back to the 5960 an there it was. It was just an added clarity and a thicker midrange added to the surround feel. Both amps on DTS Neo, playing Gladiator's 1st Collesium battle sequence.

Tried some music, ranging from classic compositions, to rock to hard hitting trance. Sounded good. Put on ''Pure Direct' and the sound had more detail than the 1015's direct stereo mode.

I find that Yamaha's DSPs are more usable and sound better than Pioneer's. It also seems to have what appears to be a better power amp section, or maybe it just matches Polks better. I'm gonna give it a week to see if it's due to the "honeymoon phase", but right now, the Yamaha is going to replace my 1015.

 

[avnetguy]

Tried some music, ranging from classic compositions, to rock to hard hitting trance. Sounded good. Put on ''Pure Direct' and the sound had more detail than the 1015's direct stereo mode.

Try the 6 channel stereo mode, adjust the surround and center levels down a bit depending on your setup. I find it great for most of my music.

Steve

 

[Kai]

I have the V659 version and chime in on what you say.
I really love it for the same reasons. I like playing around with the different sound modes too from time to time. They work rather well.
Good luck and enjoy.

 

[speakerman39]

I'm a big fan of the 1015. It was my first receiver and I bought it after numerous recommendations. I'm running a full Polk setup. I love the sound of the Pioneer until - I tried the 5960 from Yamaha. Main reason I got it was because I really needed the extra optical for my Xbox 360 and Ipod connection. Holy hell! It felt like I was hit with a tidalwave of sound that just opened up. The sound presence and immersion was noticably more pronouced than I remembered. I plugged the 1015 back in. Not the same. Went back to the 5960 an there it was. It was just an added clarity and a thicker midrange added to the surround feel. Both amps on DTS Neo, playing Gladiator's 1st Collesium battle sequence.

Tried some music, ranging from classic compositions, to rock to hard hitting trance. Sounded good. Put on ''Pure Direct' and the sound had more detail than the 1015's direct stereo mode.

I find that Yamaha's DSPs are more usable and sound better than Pioneer's. It also seems to have what appears to be a better power amp section, or maybe it just matches Polks better. I'm gonna give it a week to see if it's due to the "honeymoon phase", but right now, the Yamaha is going to replace my 1015.

I find this most interesting. That is, I originally owned a Yamaha RX-V650 and have to admit I really liked it. At that time it was no doubt better than any I had before. Then, I sold it and decided to get the Yamaha RX-V757. The problem was I was so dissapointed. I mean it had lots of features and all BUT it seemed to have less "real" world power than the 650 did. The LCD remote was a step-up and upconverting to component video was a big help BUT in terms of real power the 757 kinda wimped out. I managed to get rid of it and bought a Pioneer 1015. Right off the bat the first thing I noticed was that my Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's sounded so much fuller. IMHO, the Pioneer was much more solid in terms of power capabilities and performed even better with home theater applications. On the other hand, the Yamahas did allow for more precise tweeking. I can easily say I am much more happy with my 1015. However, if I could had afforded it I would have gotten a Yamaha RX-V2600 or one of the Pioneer Elite models. By all accounts maybe room interactions resulted in both of us experiencing things so differently....who really knows. Oh well such is the life of an audiophile.

 

[S.R. Johnson]

I find this most interesting. That is, I originally owned a Yamaha RX-V650 and have to admit I really liked it. At that time it was no doubt better than any I had before. Then, I sold it and decided to get the Yamaha RX-V757. The problem was I was so dissapointed. I mean it had lots of features and all BUT it seemed to have less "real" world power than the 650 did. The LCD remote was a step-up and upconverting to component video was a big help BUT in terms of real power the 757 kinda wimped out. I managed to get rid of it and bought a Pioneer 1015. Right off the bat the first thing I noticed was that my Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's sounded so much fuller. IMHO, the Pioneer was much more solid in terms of power capabilities and performed even better with home theater applications. On the other hand, the Yamahas did allow for more precise tweeking. I can easily say I am much more happy with my 1015. However, if I could had afforded it I would have gotten a Yamaha RX-V2600 or one of the Pioneer Elite models. By all accounts maybe room interactions resulted in both of us experiencing things so differently....who really knows. Oh well such is the life of an audiophile.

I have to agree with you. I too had a Yamaha RX-V440 and it was no slouch in the performance but needed more power, so I opt for the Pioneer and that was the difference that i was looking for!!! If I also had the money, I would get the Yamaha RX-V2600 or the Pioneer Elite VSX-84Txi.
But I would not go as far and saying the Yamaha 5960 slays the Pioneer 1015
thats like saying a Sony Str-dg500 can easily beat a H/K AVR 240. (Thats NOT going to happen!)

 

[Sheep]

I have to agree with you. I too had a Yamaha RX-V440 and it was no slouch in the performance but needed more power, so I opt for the Pioneer and that was the difference that i was looking for!!! If I also had the money, I would get the Yamaha RX-V2600 or the Pioneer Elite VSX-84Txi.
But I would not go as far and saying the Yamaha 5960 slays the Pioneer 1015
thats like saying a Sony Str-dg500 can easily beat a H/K AVR 240. (Thats NOT going to happen!)

I have an RXV-440. Def. needs more power.

Theres one thing you ALL should look up.

Blind Test.

SheepStar

 

[PENG]

It is hard to tell without level matching and a quick A/B comparison. Try the 1015 again but have the volume set say 6 dB higher before the comparison, or at least to the point you are sure it sound louder immediately and see if you hear more details.

 

[speakerman39]

I have to agree with you. I too had a Yamaha RX-V440 and it was no slouch in the performance but needed more power, so I opt for the Pioneer and that was the difference that i was looking for!!! If I also had the money, I would get the Yamaha RX-V2600 or the Pioneer Elite VSX-84Txi.
But I would not go as far and saying the Yamaha 5960 slays the Pioneer 1015
thats like saying a Sony Str-dg500 can easily beat a H/K AVR 240. (Thats NOT going to happen!)

IMHO, the Yammie 5960 will have a little bit better tweaking capability than the 1015. For example, the low frequency X-over can bet set if I remember correctly 100Hz, 90Hz, 80Hz,60Hz, and 40Hz-as such in my living room for some odd reason or another my sub(s) sound better X-overed at 90 Hz. I have used a Paradigm PS1000 v.4 10" powered sub and am now using (2) Acoustic Research 8" powered sub as well as a Mirage S12 12" powered sub and the same holds true. Must be something about my living room. The 1015 will only let me X-over at 50Hz, 80 Hz, or 100 Hz. Therefore, the 5960 has a bit better tweaking capability as well as a LYP Sync adjustment whereas the 1015 doesn't. However, in terms of real world power the Yammie 5960 is definitely weaker-just no comparison to my 1015. All in all, I love my 1015. If you really wanna talk about an absolute brute check out the HK7300. It is a "flag-ship" receiver weighing in at just under 60 lbs. and packs one heck of a punch. The only drawback I could find is that it only upconverts to component thus not having hdmi. Personally, I have a new found respect for HK after hearing what the HK7300 did to a full set of Onix Rocket speakers. Anyways, just thought I would mention my own personal experiences. Have a great day.

 

[T2T]

If you're a fan of the DSPs that Yamaha receivers have, keep in mind that quite a few of them are adjustable. Using one of the DSPs in its native state might be improved a bit by going into the setup and making a few adjustments.

 

[Bluesmoke]

However, in terms of real world power the Yammie 5960 is definitely weaker-just no comparison to my 1015. All in all, I love my 1015. If you really wanna talk about an absolute brute check out the HK7300. It is a "flag-ship" receiver weighing in at just under 60 lbs. and packs one heck of a punch.

Why would I even bring up the 7300? That's like comparing an RX7 to a Ferrari. The 5960 and the 1015 have very similar power output, price, features. I've been running them back and forth for a few days now. I can't decide which is louder since I haven't gone past -6. Both are fairly loud at this point. What I do like is the clarity of the Yamaha (could be brightness) over the Pioneer. I still love the look of my 1015 with the folding door, but I feel that the 5960 is an all round better amp.

 

[PENG]

Why would I even bring up the 7300? That's like comparing an RX7 to a Ferrari. The 5960 and the 1015 have very similar power output, price, features. I've been running them back and forth for a few days now. I can't decide which is louder since I haven't gone past -6. Both are fairly loud at this point. What I do like is the clarity of the Yamaha (could be brightness) over the Pioneer. I still love the look of my 1015 with the folding door, but I feel that the 5960 is an all round better amp.

Hello Bluesmoke, sound like you have the luxury of keeping both amp and are able to A/B compare them. I was suggesting that you let the 1015 play a little louder than the 5960 and see if you still find the 5960 sounding more detailed (or brighter). Let's say you have the volume of the 1015 and 5960 both set at -15 (just assume for now) when you compare them previously. Now set the 1015 about 5 dB higher, that is -10, while leaving the 5960 still at -15 and then do another A/B comparison listening session and see if you still hear the same difference. I am just curious, that's all.

Thanks

 

[gmichael]

I have owned both Pioneers and Yamahas over the years. I don't find that they are much different in sound quality, in the same price range. But to each their own. Some will swear that one is better than the other. And some just the opposite. Pick the one that makes you smile the most. Put the other in another room and keep enjoying it too. (heh heh heh)

 

[Bluesmoke]

Hello Bluesmoke, sound like you have the luxury of keeping both amp and are able to A/B compare them. I was suggesting that you let the 1015 play a little louder than the 5960 and see if you still find the 5960 sounding more detailed (or brighter). Let's say you have the volume of the 1015 and 5960 both set at -15 (just assume for now) when you compare them previously. Now set the 1015 about 5 dB higher, that is -10, while leaving the 5960 still at -15 and then do another A/B comparison listening session and see if you still hear the same difference. I am just curious, that's all.

Thanks

Tried that. No question the Yamaha sounds better. It could be my speakers, room setup, anything, but the 5960 sounds better to me not by a lot- but its noticable. I bought the 5960 mainly to return it if I didn't like it. Honestly, my expectations were that if the 1015 sounded better than the Yamaha, I would return the Yamaha within 30 days. But not only does the Yamaha sound better (could it be the Burr Brown DAC chips?) but it also has more features like the lip sync, XM, extra optical, Ipod, etc...

 

[speakerman39]

Why would I even bring up the 7300? That's like comparing an RX7 to a Ferrari. The 5960 and the 1015 have very similar power output, price, features. I've been running them back and forth for a few days now. I can't decide which is louder since I haven't gone past -6. Both are fairly loud at this point. What I do like is the clarity of the Yamaha (could be brightness) over the Pioneer. I still love the look of my 1015 with the folding door, but I feel that the 5960 is an all round better amp.

Sorry about bringing up the HK7300. It just made my jaw drop when I heard what it could do. Anyways, go with what makes you smile the most. I am more than happy with my 1015 and am so glad I got rid on my Yamaha RX-V757. Maybe I should had gotten the HK7300.....LOL!!!! Did not have the money. Would of even gotten a RX-V2600 if I had the money. But for now, I am content with my 1015. Good luck in your decision.

 

[ndangrd]

i don't disagree with your opinion that your 5960 sounds better, but the 1015 has more power...just compare the back panels & you'll see what i'm talking about...

also, i just bought a 1015 in this price range...but why did you choose the 5960 over the 659? they're the same price in the stores & but the 659 is better overall...

 

[jamiecrane]

I have found the Yammies to be quality units but I find the sound too bright.
If you have a SPL meter I would cal both rcvrs to the same level (referenc level or some other level you want to evaluate at) on the meter (yammie at -10 might not equal pioneer at -10 for example) using external test tones (a dvd) if possible and then re-evaluate which you prefer.
This could make a difference, not sure but you will get an idea what each is having to do to reproduce the same material at the same level.

Does any of that make sense

Jamie

 

[jamiecrane]

i don't disagree with your opinion that your 5960 sounds better, but the 1015 has more power...just compare the back panels & you'll see what i'm talking about...

What do you mean by this? Just curious.
Jamie

 

[ndangrd]

the 1015 has 480 Watts on the back panel & the 5960 only has 400 Watts. usually, this is an indicator of the "true" power output capability of the amps more so than the rated power...since almost every receiver is 100 x 7...& you know that's not true...

i'm sure someone else can explain this better than i did. more power doesn't necessarily mean better sound, but i'd rather have more than not enough...

 

[simpleHT]

the 1015 has 480 Watts on the back panel & the 5960 only has 400 Watts. usually, this is an indicator of the "true" power output capability of the amps more so than the rated power...since almost every receiver is 100 x 7...& you know that's not true...

i'm sure someone else can explain this better than i did. more power doesn't necessarily mean better sound, but i'd rather have more than not enough...

I believe the OP was talking about clarity of SQ, not power. More power does not equal to better sound.

 

[jamiecrane]

the 1015 has 480 Watts on the back panel & the 5960 only has 400 Watts. usually, this is an indicator of the "true" power output capability of the amps more so than the rated power...since almost every receiver is 100 x 7...& you know that's not true...

i'm sure someone else can explain this better than i did. more power doesn't necessarily mean better sound, but i'd rather have more than not enough...

Thanks I wasn't sure what you were refering too when you made your statement. Is this the power rating listed on the little sticker (UL ratings)?

One thing to remember is that to get a 3dB increase in output you have to DOUBLE the power, so I would think the difference in between say 100 and 125 watts would be very subjective when speaking in terms of SPL. I think any difference in sound QUALITY would be in the way each company implements their power section into the rcvr more than the actuall pwr ratings which also would be where an amps characteristics come from (bright/laid back/thin).

just my .02


jamie