Wow! What a difference!

[Hi Ho]

I have long suspected my inexpensive receiver (Panasonic SA-HE100) to be the weak link in my system, more specifically, the bass management (or lack thereof). The crossover in my receiver has only two settings, 100hz and 250hz. There has always been a hole in the frequency response.

This evening I decided to experiment. I moved my PC into the living room and connected my Audigy sound card via analog into the 6ch input on the receiver, bypassing the receivers bass management and allowing me to use the options provided in the Audigy control panel.

I was able to set the crossover in .10hz increments. I ended up at 80hz. The difference his huge! The sound is much more full! I cannot believe the difference. While changing the crossover setting the difference is very obvious. With the crossover set at 100hz there is a point during a frequency sweep that it is nearly silent as it crosses from the sub to the speakers. When set at 80hz the response is audibly flat (I don't have an SPL meter).

The D/A converters in the Audigy also seem to be FAR better than those in the receiver. I have had my PC connected to the receiver via coax digital. I though that sounded good. The sound from the Audigy's analog outputs is simply stunning. I did an A/B test using my DVD player (via TosLink) and the PC playing the same song (ripped in uncompressed .wav). The difference was unbelievable! I never knew I was missing out on so much.

I'm really itching to buy a new receiver now. The Yamaha HTR-5860 seems to be the best value. I has good bass management features, better amps, and auto EQ. Is there any reason I should not go for it? Would the DAC's in the Yamaha be better than my current receiver?

 

[PENG]

I heard the SA-HE100 before and it sounded not too bad to me. If you expect that "huge" difference, you may want to go up a couple of notches from the 5860.

 

[Tomorrow]

I have the Panasonic SA-HE200. It provides plenty of power, reliability, connectivity, and a/v options. Sad but true...the bass management is its weak link. Mine has two settings...LFE crossed at 100 and 150Hz. Otherwise, it's a dynamite setup at 105 wpc and Yamaha type thd figures.

 

[Hi Ho]

Well it's not that it sounds terrible. It actually powers my 4 OHM Advent's pretty well. It's the terrible bass management that really bothers me. As long as the 5860 can power my speakers at least as well and has better bass management it would be worth it for me.

 

[PENG]

If that is the case, why not? The features and specs of the 5860 appear to be similar to that of the RX-V657. The 657 has got some great reviews recently.

 

[Hi Ho]

I believe that is because they are the same unit with different facias.

 

[HeavyD8086]

I have an Audigy 2 ZS and although I found the bass management controls fairly easily I could _never_ get the sub channel to output anything significant (with the 6-channel analogue-out).
I totally agree that it is a very good sounding card, but since I couldn't get any bass-joy from my analog output, I switched to its SPDIF output.
You get the same results and find a way to fix? I'm very interested.

 

[Hi Ho]

With my card there is an option labeled "Bass redirection". It must be disabled. Basically what it does it enable the crossover and redirect bass to the subwoofer channel. Most PC speakers have a built in crossover so I'm assuming that is the reason this feature is off by default.

 

[Sinsemilla]

.

I've been tempted to try this as a temporary solution until I pick up a new receiver. What kind of cable to you use to connect it from the 6 CH analog output on the card to the receiver? Something along the lines of an adapter cable with a 1/8" jack on one side and RCA on the other? Then plug it into the coxial digital input on the receiver?

 

[Hi Ho]

Something along the lines of an adapter cable with a 1/8" jack on one side and RCA on the other? Then plug it into the coxial digital input on the receiver?

You have part of that right. There are two different ways to do it. If you connect it digitally you will only get 2ch sound from the PC. The Soundblaster cards, and most cards for that matter, do not have real time Dolby Digital encoding (DD Live).

The only way to get 5.1 sound from your Audigy is to use the analog outputs. You would need three cables like THIS and a 6ch input on your receiver.

 

[brian32672]

You have part of that right. There are two different ways to do it. If you connect it digitally you will only get 2ch sound from the PC. The Soundblaster cards, and most cards for that matter, do not have real time Dolby Digital encoding (DD Live).

The only way to get 5.1 sound from your Audigy is to use the analog outputs. You would need three cables like THIS and a 6ch input on your receiver.

Sorry to say, but in your case there must be something wrong. I have on-board audio and when connected to my receiver it will do a perfect 5.1, 6.1 sound.
I have witnesses for this.

When it is connected digitally, then the sound is decoded by the receiver.
That is as long as the receiver is capable of decoding a spdif input.
If it is connected by means of a single rca coax spdif (or optical)(both digital) is the way to do it.
That is unless of course you are talking only about a analog signal (not digital)
In which 100% of the movies are digital. The only time to use analog is for SACD and DVD-A

 

[Hi Ho]

Sorry to say, but in your case there must be something wrong. I have on-board audio and when connected to my receiver it will do a perfect 5.1, 6.1 sound.
I have witnesses for this.

I'd be willing to bet that you are watching a DVD and getting 5.1 sound. When watching a DVD the sound card will pass through the digital signal unchanged and the receiver will decode it and give you 5.1 sound as if you were using a standard DVD player.

When gaming this is not the case. Games don't have a soundtrack like DVD movies. They are dynamic and created in real time. A sound card like the SoundBlaster Audigy creates the sound track and sends the sounds to the correct channels via the analog outputs.

The problem is, it does not create a Dolby Digital (or DTS) stream from games. When you connect the sound card digitally and crank up a game I can guarantee that you will get 2ch stereo and nothing more.

There is a solution to this. The Xbox uses it and there are a couple PC sound solutions that do the same. Dolby Digital Live encodes a DD stream in real time.

There is only one soundcard on the market today that has DDL capability, the BlueGears X-Mystique. Some Nforce2 boards had DDL but those are quite outdated.

 

[brian32672]

When gaming this is not the case.

I will not even bother refuting this, especially since prior to your above post (unless there are edits) I saw nothing about gaming.
However, it can be refuted.................

 

[Hi Ho]

Please, refute. I would like to know how you would refute.

I was responding to Sensimilla's question and I assumed that he would be playing games. I should have made it more clear that I was talking about games.

 

[Sinsemilla]

.

Actually I was talking about running my soundcard out to my receiver while I was playing DVD. Originally the thread started out discussing the use of a sound card's features to set the crossover for better bass management. My receiver has limited options in the bass management dept and I wanted to give this a shot. I do have 6ch input on my receiver and plenty of spare cables like that laying around so I guess i'll put my pc in the other room and give it a shot.

Oh and btw the Audigy 2 ZS does have built in DD/EX, and DTS decoders.

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=204&product=4915
(scroll down to the bottom of the page and you'll see it)

 

[brian32672]

There is only one soundcard on the market today that has DDL capability, the BlueGears X-Mystique. Some Nforce2 boards had DDL but those are quite outdated.

This statement alone is quite wrong. Here look at this one
Also this might be a good read for you HERE
EDIT:: Oh BTW, sorry for being a tad rude last night - I was a little drunk.......

Actually I was talking about running my soundcard out to my receiver while I was playing DVD

That honestly was what I thought. Yes, you only need to connect a single cable to the receiver. Either a coax digitial or optical digital. You will not need 6 mini plugs etc.... You should still be able to have management with your soundcard.

 

[Hi Ho]

Sorry for creating all this confusion. I had games on my mind. I knew about the Turtle Beach card but I thought it had been discontinued. I had never heard of DTS Interactive.

Oh and btw the Audigy 2 ZS does have built in DD/EX, and DTS decoders.

Yes, it does have DD/DTS decoders. It does not have encoders which is what is needed for games.

For DVD's all you need is the single cable. Again, I'm sorry for causing this confusion.

Now that I come to think about it, with a digital connection will one still have the bass management controls that I was raving about? I'm not sure.

 

[brian32672]

Now that I come to think about it, with a digital connection will one still have the bass management controls that I was raving about? I'm not sure.

Yes he will, actually he will have more control. He can use the soundcards parametric EQ.