Wow and Flutter oddity

[Bill Gobby]

Hi,

I just bought a "professional" CD & cassette recorder(Not cheap) from a company that has a Consumer, as well as professional line of recording stuff. I have hundreds of Cassette tapes, some of which I'll copy to CD.

I recorded from the Machine's CD side to It's Cassette side, some solo Oscar Peterson piano stuff, and on playback there was, to me an unacceptable amount of wow and flutter, that I don't get when played on an older JVC inexpensive cassette deck.
The Oddity is that when I listened to that same tape thru the headphone jack with My Sennheiser HD590's,
the wow & flutter problem seems nowhere as noticeable. Very, very Strange!!
I don't know if there are some frequencies that don't show up in headphone or coloration of some sort, as opposed to coming thru Amp and speakers?

Bill

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,

I just bought a "professional" CD & cassette recorder(Not cheap) from a company that has a Consumer, as well as professional line of recording stuff. I have hundreds of Cassette tapes, some of which I'll copy to CD.

I recorded from the Machine's CD side to It's Cassette side, some solo Oscar Peterson piano stuff, and on playback there was, to me an unacceptable amount of wow and flutter, that I don't get when played on an older JVC inexpensive cassette deck.
The Oddity is that when I listened to that same tape thru the headphone jack with My Sennheiser HD590's,
the wow & flutter problem seems nowhere as noticeable. Very, very Strange!!
I don't know if there are some frequencies that don't show up in headphone or coloration of some sort, as opposed to coming thru Amp and speakers?

Bill

The wow and flutter is more obvious with the speakers because of the spacing and distance. That is typical.

That pro machine needs service. What is it?

 

[Bill Gobby]

The wow and flutter is more obvious with the speakers because of the spacing and distance. That is typical.

That pro machine needs service. What is it?

It's a Brand new out of the box Tascam CC-222mkIV

 

[TLS Guy]

It's a Brand new out of the box Tascam CC-222mkIV

Send it back and ask for a new one and see if it is better. It might not be. That unit looks identical to a TEAC unit I used to own, except that this one is Tascam and has "ears" for rack mounting. The CD player of the unit was OK, but the Cassette deck was low end junk and not really capable of serious use. It certainly did not meet my standards.

You might want to consider returning that and getting something else. That is a fib to call that unit pro. It is a domestic unit dressed up for rack mounting.

One other piece of advice. Avoid reversing decks like the plague.

 

[Bill Gobby]

Send it back and ask for a new one and see if it is better. It might not be. That unit looks identical to a TEAC unit I used to own, except that this one is Tascam and has "ears" for rack mounting. The CD player of the unit was OK, but the Cassette deck was low end junk and not really capable of serious use. It certainly did not meet my standards.

You might want to consider returning that and getting something else. That is a fib to call that unit pro. It is a domestic unit dressed up for rack mounting.

One other piece of advice. Avoid reversing decks like the plague.

Looks like you're right, but there's not much out there for cassettes any more, sheesh, thanks!

 

[highfigh]

Fast forward and rewind the tape, then record it again. If the tape wasn't wrapped evenly, you WILL have wow and flutter when the tape slips under tension. If it still happens, return it. My JVC from 1976 has no problem with this but that was the beginning of the heyday for cassette production.

 

[Bill Gobby]

Fast forward and rewind the tape, then record it again. If the tape wasn't wrapped evenly, you WILL have wow and flutter when the tape slips under tension. If it still happens, return it. My JVC from 1976 has no problem with this but that was the beginning of the heyday for cassette production.

Yeah,
Our old JVC's have a wow & flutter spec of .08% and this Pro model has a spec of .25%, completely unacceptable.
I returned the machine even though I loved what could be done with it.
Ott

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah,
Our old JVC's have a wow & flutter spec of .08% and this Pro model has a spec of .25%, completely unacceptable.
I returned the machine even though I loved what could be done with it.
Ott

Yes, wow over 0.1% is very audible to most.

I don't understand why you would want to dub a CD to a cassette in this day and age.

If you want to archive cassette to hard drive, then try and find a good older machine. Get a three head dual capstan machine. It might need some restoration though.

The only thing that can be said for the cassette medium is that it is better than 8 track. That is damning it with faint praise however.

In my view only the most expensive machines costing between $1200 and $2000 thirty years ago, reached the just about acceptable level. I used to use them for recording FM broadcasts and making masters for high speed duplication.

Cassette reproduction even then is far short of LP and reel to reel. Only pro or semi pro reel to reel machines had acceptable quality. The vast majority of consumer reel to reel machines were pretty sorry affairs really.

 

[Bill Gobby]

Yes, wow over 0.1% is very audible to most.

I don't understand why you would want to dub a CD to a cassette in this day and age.

If you want to archive cassette to hard drive, then try and find a good older machine. Get a three head dual capstan machine. It might need some restoration though.

The only thing that can be said for the cassette medium is that it is better than 8 track. That is damning it with faint praise however.

In my view only the most expensive machines costing between $1200 and $2000 thirty years ago, reached the just about acceptable level. I used to use them for recording FM broadcasts and making masters for high speed duplication.

Cassette reproduction even then is far short of LP and reel to reel. Only pro or semi pro reel to reel machines had acceptable quality. The vast majority of consumer reel to reel machines were pretty sorry affairs really.

I don't want to record to Cassette, only playback 100's of Tapes that I've made over the years, on a couple of old Aiwa's that had .02% w&f, specs anyway.

What I really like about the Tascam is that I could easily transfer cassette to CD I don't do hard drive stuff, and it was easy to transfer Vinyl to CD as well, IF I wished to.
Also it records on CDR's and not having to buy recordable Music CD's which cost more here.

I'm now looking for a reasonably priced turntable as well,
I also have around 1000 Vinyl LPs, and I have no idea
how I just got into Italics.

Bill

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't want to record to Cassette, only playback 100's of Tapes that I've made over the years, on a couple of old Aiwa's that had .02% w&f, specs anyway.

What I really like about the Tascam is that I could easily transfer cassette to CD I don't do hard drive stuff, and it was easy to transfer Vinyl to CD as well, IF I wished to.
Also it records on CDR's and not having to buy recordable Music CD's which cost more here.

I'm now looking for a reasonably priced turntable as well,
I also have around 1000 Vinyl LPs, and I have no idea
how I just got into Italics.

Bill

I see.

I would learn to use a computer and have back up drives. It is so much easier than using a CD recorder, which is a real PITA.

The other issue is that in my experience recordable CDs often have a short life. They are far from permanent.

I do digitally archive tapes, as they deteriorate. I do not digitally archive LPs. I just my collection. LPs are the most durable medium I know of, so I see no point in transferring them.

 

[KEW]

The other issue is that in my experience recordable CDs often have a short life. They are far from permanent.

What types of failures are you seeing with CD's? Mine are still doing fine from the 80's. The only problems I have had were the result of abuse (major scratches on the surface).

 

[TLS Guy]

What types of failures are you seeing with CD's? Mine are still doing fine from the 80's. The only problems I have had were the result of abuse (major scratches on the surface).

I have had very few failures of commercially produced CDs, but I have had some over time. The worst is the dreaded "golding" failure. However among CDRs quite a few failures over time. They just develop a lot of skips and data losses of one sort or another.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have had very few failures of commercially produced CDs, but I have had some over time. The worst is the dreaded "golding" failure. However among CDRs quite a few failures over time. They just develop a lot of skips and data losses of one sort or another.

What brand do you typically use for CDR?

I absolutely avoid Memorex like the plague! I have some older Memorex and just about every one of them has delaminated!

My favorite CDRs that tend to last a long time are: Maxell, TDK, and maybe Toshiba if I'm in a pinch.

 

[TLS Guy]

What brand do you typically use for CDR?

I absolutely avoid Memorex like the plague! I have some older Memorex and just about every one of them has delaminated!

My favorite CDRs that tend to last a long time are: Maxell, TDK, and maybe Toshiba if I'm in a pinch.

Maxell, TDK and Memorex mostly. I don't think I have noticed one brand fail over another frankly. I jst know that you can't rely on a CDR to make "old bones" so to speak.

 

[slipperybidness]

Maxell, TDK and Memorex mostly. I don't think I have noticed one brand fail over another frankly. I jst know that you can't rely on a CDR to make "old bones" so to speak.

Well, I have some CDRs that are going on 15 years old and have absolutely no problems with them.

I mentioned that I avoid Memorex, I have had nothing but problems from that brand! Not just the CDRs, but also DVD-Rs that I had a recorder that would not recognize Memorex at all. At that point, I boycotted Memorex.

But, at least 2 out of the 3 brands we agree on: Maxell, TDK.

I will also admit that I tend to be a lot more careless with CDRs. I tend to take new CDs, rip them to FLAC using EAC, then archive the CD. But when I use CDRs, I'm not careful with them at all. They're cheap, when it gets beat up, I just burn a new one.