Would an audio upgrade make sense for a small room?

[gnagel]

I just completed a home theatre set-up in a small room in my condo. The room is approximately 10 by 13 feet. I tried to use as many of my existing components as possible when designing the system. The existing components are flagged with a **.

Here's the existing set-up:

Monitor - Sony SXRD KDS-R50XBR1
Signal - Comcast Digital Cable HD
DVR - Comcast Motorola PVR (DCT-6400)
DVD Player - Oppo DVD (OPDV-971H)
Receiver - Yamaha AV Receiver (RX-V795)**
Front/Center Speakers - Anthony Gallo A'Diva Ti
Rear Speakers (2) - Anthony Gallo Nucleus Micro**
Subwoofer - B&W ASW1000**

Now that everything is up and running, I am interested in your perspective as to whether it would make a significant difference to upgrade a component or two within this system--particularly with the audio.

Would an upgrade to the receiver make a noticeable difference given the small size of the room?

Would different speakers make a noticeable difference within a small room?

Thanks!

Following are a few images of the set up:

Entering the room--it's only 10 feet deep by 13 feet wide...

View of the subwoofer, front and center speakers, television and other components...

Television and stand with components...

The Anthony Gallo Micros are positioned in the ceiling...

 

[abboudc]

The receiver won't make a difference unless you get power hungry speakers. The speakers and sub, absolutely. I have my setup running in a 10x14 room and the speakers and sub made a night and day difference.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I would also agree that speakers and sub would be the major area of improvement along with room acoustics.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I just completed a home theatre set-up in a small room in my condo. The room is approximately 10 by 13 feet. I tried to use as many of my existing components as possible when designing the system. The existing components are flagged with a **.

Here's the existing set-up:

Monitor - Sony SXRD KDS-R50XBR1
Signal - Comcast Digital Cable HD
DVR - Comcast Motorola PVR (DCT-6400)
DVD Player - Oppo DVD (OPDV-971H)
Receiver - Yamaha AV Receiver (RX-V795)**
Front/Center Speakers - Anthony Gallo A'Diva Ti
Rear Speakers (2) - Anthony Gallo Nucleus Micro**
Subwoofer - B&W ASW1000**

Now that everything is up and running, I am interested in your perspective as to whether it would make a significant difference to upgrade a component or two within this system--particularly with the audio.

Would an upgrade to the receiver make a noticeable difference given the small size of the room?

Would different speakers make a noticeable difference within a small room?

Thanks!

Different speakers can make a difference in sound. first, you may want to consider adding room treatment. It can be done for much less than new speakers and will likely have a larger effect on your sound. Here's a link to a thread where I recently added treatment and my take on it.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26709

If you the treatment doesn't give you the sound you are looking for then you could consider new speakers.

Jack

 

[Nick250]

Just to add my summation of the suggestions, speaker choice, room acoustics and room treatments is 95% of what your hear. Pay attention to that and you will be a happy camper. In my case, bass traps made a huge improvement to an already good (at least by my standards) system.

Nick

 

[gnagel]

...speaker choice, room acoustics and room treatments is 95% of what your hear. Pay attention to that and you will be a happy camper.

I've posted a few images of the room.

I might be limited with what I can do with room treatments. The right side wall is a closet and the left side wall is a rather large window covered by blinds. The ceiling has track lighting as well as a few canned lights.

As shown in the photos, the speakers are small spheres. I always heard that Gallo produces a quality speaker---and I previously replaced Gallo Micro center and front speakers with the Gallo A'Diva Titanium speakers. I certainly have enough room for floor standing speakers if they would make a noticeable difference. I would probably keep the Micros for my rears since I'm restricted to the in-ceiling speakers back there in this room.

Given this additional information, are there any other thoughts on whether it makes sense to upgrade the front and center speakers? Any thoughts about how I might be able to improve the acoustics in that room?

Thanks again...

 

[abboudc]

It definitely makes sense to upgrade the fronts and center. The gallos are great for small speakers, but can only move so much air. You won't lose much space, since you already have them on stands.

What's your budget?

 

[gnagel]

What's your budget?

Well, the Gallo A'Diva Ti's run about $300 per speaker. And, they have great resale value.

So, if I were to upgrade, I would be willing to spend more than I did on the A'Divas. It there was a noticeable difference in quality, I guess I would be willing to go as high as $600 per speaker.

One challenge will be that there isn't much room for the center speaker--unless it was mounted on the wall behind the television (which might lead to more expenditures if I wished to hide the wires and so forth).

 

[abboudc]

In that case, check out the Axiom M60's. The sound difference should be immediately noticeable

Axiom M60

How much height clearance do you have on the shelves under your TV?

 

[gnagel]

How much height clearance do you have on the shelves under your TV?

Just over 8 inches on the bottom shelf.

At one time, I considered going with the Anthony Gallo Due for my center speaker.

I also want to make sure that all of the speakers integrate well. I have Gallo Micros for the rears and the B&W subwoofer. The B&W subwoofer almost seems to be overkill in that room!

 

[Tomorrow]

Well, the Gallo A'Diva Ti's run about $300 per speaker. And, they have great resale value.

So, if I were to upgrade, I would be willing to spend more than I did on the A'Divas. It there was a noticeable difference in quality, I guess I would be willing to go as high as $600 per speaker.

One challenge will be that there isn't much room for the center speaker--unless it was mounted on the wall behind the television (which might lead to more expenditures if I wished to hide the wires and so forth).

Gnagel, your room looks terrific. Nice going. (Although, I think I detect a little OCD at work. My wife has the same orderly addiction, lol.)

You have had some good advice in this thread. I'd also mention that cost will not be an important factor in any speaker "upgrade", especially at the budget level you mention. How the speakers sound to you is what is important. It is necessary to keep in mind that of all the audio elements in a home theater/music system, speakers are the most personal and subject to listener bias. More money (or larger size) most definitely does not translate into "better" or "upgraded" speakers. Only your auditioning will tell you if they are an improvement. (And as we hear....size isn't everything. )

Good hunting.

 

[Nick250]

Well, the Gallo A'Diva Ti's run about $300 per speaker. And, they have great resale value.

So, if I were to upgrade, I would be willing to spend more than I did on the A'Divas. It there was a noticeable difference in quality, I guess I would be willing to go as high as $600 per speaker.

One challenge will be that there isn't much room for the center speaker--unless it was mounted on the wall behind the television (which might lead to more expenditures if I wished to hide the wires and so forth).

There are a lot of great speakers in your price range. The first step is grab you're favorite CD and audition as many speakers as you can that is in your price range, then we can start talking about the ID (Internet direct) companies. If music is important to you there is no getting around that auditioning is the first and most important step of process.

Nick

 

[abboudc]

Just over 8 inches on the bottom shelf.

At one time, I considered going with the Anthony Gallo Due for my center speaker.

I also want to make sure that all of the speakers integrate well. I have Gallo Micros for the rears and the B&W subwoofer. The B&W subwoofer almost seems to be overkill in that room!

Both the matching centers to the M60's are 7.5" tall and should fit:
Axiom Centers

The B&W subwoofer may be overkill now, but it's better to have too much bass (you can always turn it down), than not enough.

As the others noted, speakers are very subjective, but i disagree with the statement "size doesn't matter". Once you get to a certain size that's certainly true, but no "cube" or "mini" speaker will be able to match the output of any decent midtower. Certainly size is not the only factor (but in your particular case i believe it will be the biggest difference maker). That said, 15" KLH's will not sound better than the Gallos

 

[Tomorrow]

but i disagree with the statement "size doesn't matter". Once you get to a certain size that's certainly true, but no "cube" or "mini" speaker will be able to match the output of any decent midtower. Certainly size is not the only factor (but in your particular case i believe it will be the biggest difference maker). That said, 15" KLH's will not sound better than the Gallos

Remember abboudc, that size thing is your preference/bias. I have a set of inlaws that will argue with you till you turn blue that little speakers are "better" than big'uns. I didn't say size doesn't matter in "matching output", by the way, as that would be a tad ridiculous. I said size doesn't matter when it comes to listening preference. And that personal preference IS what matters.

 

[abboudc]

Remember abboudc, that size thing is your preference/bias.

Quite the contrary. I'd LOVE a set of speakers the size of Bose cubes that output as well as a decent midtower. Smaller is better from an aesthetic, and cool factor perspective.
However, in the current state of the art, multi-driver configurations handily trump single 2 1/2" drivers in sound quality.

I have a set of inlaws that will argue with you till you turn blue that little speakers are "better" than big'uns. I didn't say size doesn't matter in "matching output", by the way, as that would be a tad ridiculous.

Well, preference is a subjective thing, like you say, but that shouldn't be confused with quality. Some people prefer Hyundais to Mercedes, personally, i do not. They're not wrong in their preference, but their priorities and constraints are different. I doubt, cost being no object, many people would still pick the Hyundai though.

I said size doesn't matter when it comes to listening preference. And that personal preference IS what matters.

When it comes to listening preference, nothing matters but listening preference. However, overwhelmingly, when you pull back the curtain at the end of a blind sound test between a quality midtower and quality cube speakers, most of the world will prefer the quality of sound of the midtower. Internal speaker volume matters, surface area (for multidriver configurations) matters, separation of duties between tweeters and woofers matter. All of this is not feasible in a 3" square (or round) speaker.
Just because somethings bigger doesn't mean it sounds better though. Big speakers can and do often sound bad. Which is why i recommended the Axioms and not Technics with 15" woofers Bookshelves can and do sound great. However, when you get down to certain size where a 2" or 3" driver is all that's possible, that small size is a serious constraint on what the speaker can produce.
Getting back on topic, in gnagel's particular case, his stands and current speakers would take up the about the same amount of floor space and height as the Axioms. Since, in his case, size doesn't appear to be the primary constraint, he would notice a big difference in extension by going with M60's/VP1xx over his current setup. IMO, they'd blend much better with his sub as well.
gnagel, this is just my opinion In any case, good luck and do let us know how it turns out and what you think of your new set up

 

[Tomorrow]

Quite the contrary. I'd LOVE a set of speakers the size of Bose cubes that output as well as a decent midtower. Smaller is better from an aesthetic, and cool factor perspective.
However, in the current state of the art, multi-driver configurations handily trump single 2 1/2" drivers in sound quality.

Well, preference is a subjective thing, like you say, but that shouldn't be confused with quality. Some people prefer Hyundais to Mercedes, personally, i do not. They're not wrong in their preference, but their priorities and constraints are different. I doubt, cost being no object, many people would still pick the Hyundai though.

When it comes to listening preference, nothing matters but listening preference. However, overwhelmingly, when you pull back the curtain at the end of a blind sound test between a quality midtower and quality cube speakers, most of the world will prefer the quality of sound of the midtower. Internal speaker volume matters, surface area (for multidriver configurations) matters, separation of duties between tweeters and woofers matter. All of this is not feasible in a 3" square (or round) speaker.
Just because somethings bigger doesn't mean it sounds better though. Big speakers can and do often sound bad. Which is why i recommended the Axioms and not Technics with 15" woofers Bookshelves can and do sound great. However, when you get down to certain size where a 2" or 3" driver is all that's possible, that small size is a serious constraint on what the speaker can produce.
Getting back on topic, in gnagel's particular case, his stands and current speakers would take up the about the same amount of floor space and height as the Axioms. Since, in his case, size doesn't appear to be the primary constraint, he would notice a big difference in extension by going with M60's/VP1xx over his current setup. IMO, they'd blend much better with his sub as well.
gnagel, this is just my opinion In any case, good luck and do let us know how it turns out and what you think of your new set up

You're right that bigger does not mean better. But a little logic is required here.

We've been down this automobile analogy road ( ) on AH before. It doesn't cut it when you start driving Ferraris and Hondas down the interstate, both at 55mph, when one gets better mileage, has a better warranty, is safer, etc. etc. Which is the better one, now?

It's funny that you state you disagree with me and then do so using personal preferences and subjective opinions to try to prove your point that it's not your personal bias. Look at your adjectives..."quality" (what's a quality driver, what is not?), "sounds better" (to whom?), etc. That "most" people make a selection of preference does not make it a better selection, abboudc. You even confuse your references. "Smaller is better for aesthetics". "Larger is better for output." "Larger is better if you buy quality." "Larger is not better if it's not quality". (One presumes that there is an absolute truth 'out there' that tells us what is a quality speaker and what is not??? Who should we ask?) These are called 'value judgements' and this is why helping someone select speakers is so very difficult.

You like what you like. The point that needs to be reinforced is that the OP need have no bias toward size, or "quality", or "upgrade", or "better". He merely needs to audition speakers...preferably in his home, and select those which he prefers.

As I said before, there are those like my inlaws that detest dynamic, expensive, large, big-black-box speakers. It is for them to decide what is good quality...to them. No one else. There is no absolute and valid definition of a good or bad speaker. And please, let's not get started on "accuracy" again. LOL.

Good cheer.

 

[Zer0beaT]

Looking at the size and layout of your room I wouldn't consider the Axiom M60 instead I'd be going with the M22's for front L/R. The M60 is quite large mainly in depth, and they sound better with a bit of space between them and the wall, while the M22 is a really nice size for small-medium rooms and they sound great nearer to a wall (still need maybe 6" off though) you won't be losing sound quality only bass extension, which your sub can provide.

Look at M22 and a VP150 center, that would be a great sounding setup in that room. A pair of M22's, VP150 center and FMS16 stands you're looking at just over $1000.00

I'd just stick with that sub for the time being and see how it integrates with whatever speakers you decide to get.

 

[gnagel]

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

The debate about whether 5" spheres can "compete" in sound quality with the larger towers is at the heart of my question. Before I bought the Gallos, the reviews I read regarding the Gallo speakers led me to believe that they could.

They do sound great, but I'm always wondering if they really do sound as good in that room as the Axiom's, for example.

I'm assuming that the Gallos would still be good for the rears if I went with the Axiom speakers in the front.

Thanks again!

 

[Jack Hammer]

I have no personal experience with the Gallo's and don't know anything about the speaker cone size. I'm under the impression that they are a very well made speaker. If you are not happy with the way they sound, then an upgrade/change in speaker may be in order.

Try going to the Saturday Audio Exchange on Belmont and sheffield, they have several good speakers there, used and new, that you can listen to. Also try driving to Abt Electronics in the suburbs (Glenview, I think), again they have several different brands. Or try Glenn Poor on Grand and State, hi end $$$ stuff. Bring a CD or DVD you are familiar with. You should consider auditioning speakers to find what you like.

I still think treatment will help your room quite a bit, but I understand how difficult it can be when space is at a premium. The people at GIK Acoustics were very helpful with my setup, they didn't try to sell me anything I didn't need or couldn't use. Try calling them or any other acoustic panel maker of your choice, for a recomendation.

Jack

 

[Buckle-meister]

Woah, woah, woah!

Gnagel, unless you're prepared to pull those seats in your first photo away from that rear wall by around a couple of feet minimum, much of the benefits you'd receive with room treatment will be wasted. First sort out your speaker/seating placement before thinking about any equipment upgrade.

You'd be surprised what a difference drawing seats and speakers away from walls makes.