Working with old Denon equipment from storage.

[cjfreel]

So long story short, I have 4 tower speakers(2x Fisher 3 Way and a 2 Way that I'm not exactly sure what it is), a old CD player (Denon DCD 820, the one pictured here), and an old stereo (Denon DRA 825R as the one pictured here).

The equipment was put into storage about a decade ago due to a combination of new equipment and technical errors.

I've diagnosed the problems in the Fisher stereos as being incorrect wiring and wrong external wires, which has been fixed. The two additional towers were completely blown and I've been buying new equipment for them (8" Subwoofers are coming soon).

My problem is with the Denon 825R. I cannot figure out why I cannot get it to play music in combination with the DCD. When I hit the power button, there is a click and the display screen works just as it is supposed to. I connected the RCA White/Red wire from the CD slot in the back of the 825R to the two RCA connectors in the DCD, plugged the DCD power cable in, plugged the 825R in, and plugged the two Fisher speaker towers (Which I had tested with a smaller JCV stereo) into the 825R. When I went to play a CD, the DCD (whose display was also working) counted the seconds on the display but no sound was found.

My problem is two fold:

Is it the 825R or the DCD? I'm assuming the 825R, just because I have a hunch but I don't know how to check each individual unit. The greatest problem related to this issue I could find in my searching was that the Pre-Out was not connected to the Main-In, but the two cables were connected with the brackets as seen in this picture here. I have not tried to remove nor replace the brackets.

I will not be able to check many things on the products tonight as it's midnight and I'm separated from the equipment until tomorrow. I have morning classes and then am going to go searching for two 8" Subwoofers (cost-effective suggestions or dealers would be GREATLY appreciated). By about Noon-1 PM tomorrow and later I'll be working diligently at fixing the problems.

Any suggestions of what the problem could be or how to further diagnose will be greatly appreciated.

 

[markw]

I don't see any pictures but tjree things to try to start:

1) I'm pretty sure the pre outs have to be connected to the main ins. Some units might have a switch to decouple them. If not, you need them jumpered.

2) does the tuner work?

3) see if headphones work.

And, let's get some terminology straight. Not all big speakers are SUBwoofers. The big speakers in multi-driver systems are are woofers. A subwoofer is a different creature with different purpose. If you ask for subwoofers, you will be sorely disappointed.

 

[Swerd]

I think you're on the right track in thinking its the receiver.

To follow up on Mark's suggestions, I found a photo of the back of a Denon 825R showing the jumpers between the PRE OUT and MAIN IN jacks. They are those 4 RCA jacks just to the left of the name plate.

If you no longer have those short jumpers, any pair of RCA interconnects will work as well.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

looks like Hi-Fi DB folks don't like hot-linked images for some reason.
FTFY

 

[cjfreel]

Ye I hyperlinked stock images with the word "Here" every time I state that there is a picture.

The Pre-Out and Main-In connector IS attached as pictured above. Don't know if my problem is the 825R or DCD yet though. Trying to find something to hook up the stereo or CD player to with RCA components but I don't have much equipment that works on RCA.

 

[cjfreel]

A bit of an update:

I bought a headphone adapter to check the Headphone slots in both the DCD 820 and the DRA 825R.

I have the DCD being run through the DRA, with the power cable going from the DCD into the DRA, then the DRA power cable being connected to the wall. I bought new Red/White RCA connectors to see if the connectors were the issue. I connected the Red White to the back of the DCD and to the "CD" inputs on the DRA.

When I powered up the DRA, both displays came on and worked as they should. The DCD display began to count the time of the CD inside it as soon as it was turned on. I attached the headphones to the DRA headphone jack and got no sound. When I attached the headphones to the DCD headphone slot, I got sound.

I would theorize that the since DCD appears to be working, and that both the Headphones and speakers attached to the DRA produce no sound, the problem lies either in how I'm hooking up the DCD to the DRA or the DRA itself.

As stated previous, the Pre-Outs are indeed attached to the Main-Ins, but I don't know if that connector (the one pictured above) is working properly. I don't know how to remove the Connector, I'm assuming I have to do more than pull it out since it seems to be connected in there well. I have multiple RCA cables I could try to use to see if that connector is the issue if I can figure out how to remove it.

As far as the tuner, the radio seems to be seeking fine. It doesn't get good signal but when I hit seek it was finding a channel or two, but none of the found channel produced sound and I would expect the absence of a channel to be accompanied by static or some sort of white noise. I get no white noise or static sound at any point out of my headphone or speakers.

Any ideas?


---.---


Thank you (mark) for pointing out the major differences between a Woofer and a Subwoofer. I haven't worked much with audio equipment in the passed and am just starting to research into what I'm doing precisely. I do have one question though:

Because I'm attempting to accompany my two Fisher 3-Ways (which has a Woofer and a Mid) to the two 2-ways, would it be possible to use Subwoofers on the 2-way since the mid would already have a fair amount of coverage? This system will probably be used almost exclusively for music so I was wondering if the deeper bass sound accompanied with the 3-Way (Tweeter, Mid, Woofer) combined with the 2-Way (Tweeter, Subwoofer) would give a good overall sound.

I don't know about this, just seems easier to find subwoofers and I'm curious as to the different sound I could produce in getting lower basses in louder music.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks telling us your latest progress. This will be a process of elimination.

When I powered up the DRA, both displays came on and worked as they should. The DCD display began to count the time of the CD inside it as soon as it was turned on. I attached the headphones to the DRA headphone jack and got no sound. When I attached the headphones to the DCD headphone slot, I got sound.

I would theorize that the since DCD appears to be working, and that both the Headphones and speakers attached to the DRA produce no sound, the problem lies either in how I'm hooking up the DCD to the DRA or the DRA itself.

Yes. When you tried listening to the radio, you said you also got no sound from the speakers or headphones. That makes two independent sources from which the receiver makes no sound. I think that rules out the CD player-to-receiver connection as a problem. You might be able to confirm this by hooking the RCA cables from the CD player to a different set of inputs on your receiver. I can't quite read the labels in the photo of the back of your receiver, but try any RCA input jack other than PHONO or REC. If this also doesn't work, the problem is in the receiver.

As stated previous, the Pre-Outs are indeed attached to the Main-Ins, but I don't know if that connector (the one pictured above) is working properly. I don't know how to remove the Connector, I'm assuming I have to do more than pull it out since it seems to be connected in there well. I have multiple RCA cables I could try to use to see if that connector is the issue if I can figure out how to remove it.

Yes, try that. Those jumpers have probably been in there for some time, but they should pull out like RCA plugs. Those PRE OUT MAIN IN jacks were made to allow connecting the receiver as a preamp to a separate (and presumably more powerful) amplifier via a pair of RCA cables. The jumpers are essentially very short RCA cables.

 

[markw]

Check the buttons on the front panel. Any tape monitors should be off and if there are speaker selectors, make sure whatever terminals you have your speakers connected to is selected.

And, you can run a subwoofer with virtually any receiver and speaker combination, particularly if it has speaker level inputs.

 

[cjfreel]

So I took both pairs of RCA wire and hooked my CD player through RCA to my old Television and I could run the CDs through there so the CD player and RCA cables are completely fine which leaves me down to just the 825R.

I removed the Pre-Out, Main-In connector and replaced it with a set of RCA cables and that didn't fix the problem.

To recap really fast: the problem is that I can get no volume from the 825R from either my set of speakers nor the headphone jack. I have tested the Speakers and Headphone jack on different systems and they both work, including the headphones work when plugged directly into the DCD.

The inputs on the back of the 825R are:

Inputs
Phono...CD

Tape 1
PB...REC

Tape 2
PB...REC

VDP

VCR

When I found the system, the RCA cable was already connected at CD. I've tried to connect it to most of the other inputs and none of them have worked thus far.

Like I said earlier, I'm assuming that I would at least get white noise or static at some point even without Radio antennas if I were searching the radio, but I'm getting no volume from any action.

Am I getting close to needing to take the cover off and search for mechanical issues underneath?

 

[markw]

Well, the CDd player and one set of speakers work. That's good. As for the receiver, well....

To be honest, this isn't the old days when dad, granddad, would take the tubes out of the TV, put 'em in a paper bag, and take 'em to the local Radio Shack and test them. There are no user servicable parts inside these things and tech charge a pretty penny for their services. That it lights up when it's powered on leads me to believe the fuses are functional and, trust me, there isn't really anything most of us can do beyond that.

It might be time to start looking for another receiver. Check Craigslist, Salvation Army, Goodwill, rummage and garage sales if you want used but you can get a NIB, factory guaranteed stereo receiver starting around $100 or so. Multi-channel for a bit more.

 

[cjfreel]

I don't need this to work, I simply want it to. This project to me is as much about having a stereo as it is having a restorative hobby. Just a bored guy needing something to do.

I'm going to take it to some people who may know what's up with audio equipment and see if I can get some friendly help. Otherwise, if more suggestions can be come up with, I'm very intrigued.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't need this to work, I simply want it to. This project to me is as much about having a stereo as it is having a restorative hobby. Just a bored guy needing something to do.

I'm going to take it to some people who may know what's up with audio equipment and see if I can get some friendly help. Otherwise, if more suggestions can be come up with, I'm very intrigued.

You have not confirmed that the tape monitor loop is not engaged. If the tape loop is in it would account for your problem.

If that is not the issue you will not fix it without a lot of education. For you to fix it, is like asking the refuse collector to do your next surgery.

You need to understand how circuits work and the general anatomy of receivers and audio equipment. You also need quite a few instruments and know what they are for, and how to use them. You also need to aware of safety procedures for working on live equipment, so you don't kill yourself.

These types of posts, and we get quite a few, never cease to astound me.

 

[anamorphic96]

That particular Denon is a really good unit with a well built amp section, and worth being looked at. Something as simple as a stuck relay could be the problem. You might want to try Audiokarma.org as they tend to deal more in older and vintage equipment.

 

[cjfreel]

You have not confirmed that the tape monitor loop is not engaged. If the tape loop is in it would account for your problem.

If that is not the issue you will not fix it without a lot of education. For you to fix it, is like asking the refuse collector to do your next surgery.

You need to understand how circuits work and the general anatomy of receivers and audio equipment. You also need quite a few instruments and know what they are for, and how to use them. You also need to aware of safety procedures for working on live equipment, so you don't kill yourself.

These types of posts, and we get quite a few, never cease to astound me.

I'm not a complete novice with electrical equipment, just audio equipment. I've worked with a lot of electrical equipment in the past, most notably automotive related. I consulted the forumf or suggestion that dealt more directly with the equipment I have and with the hope that someone had shared the experience with the Denon. I've worked around a few circuit boards before, I wouldn't worry about me killing myself, but thank you for thinking of me.


Again, as it was yesterday, I don't have the equipment in front of me this late at night, but want to make sure I know what to check for in the morning: how would I see if the tape monitor loop is engaged or not? I just don't remember that as being a phrase I saw directly and want to know exactly what to try tomorrow morning.

Again this: http://www.hifidatabase.com/static/gallery/7/2107-dra825r.JPG is the exact front of the model I'm working with. Just want to ensure I'm doing everyhting right on my end and that it is, indeed, a hardware issue and not a potential idiocy of setting issue.

Thank you (anamorphic) for the Audiokarma suggestion. I will probably look to recreate this post tomorrow.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not a complete novice with electrical equipment, just audio equipment. I've worked with a lot of electrical equipment in the past, most notably automotive related. I consulted the forumf or suggestion that dealt more directly with the equipment I have and with the hope that someone had shared the experience with the Denon. I've worked around a few circuit boards before, I wouldn't worry about me killing myself, but thank you for thinking of me.


Again, as it was yesterday, I don't have the equipment in front of me this late at night, but want to make sure I know what to check for in the morning: how would I see if the tape monitor loop is engaged or not? I just don't remember that as being a phrase I saw directly and want to know exactly what to try tomorrow morning.

Again this: http://www.hifidatabase.com/static/gallery/7/2107-dra825r.JPG is the exact front of the model I'm working with. Just want to ensure I'm doing everyhting right on my end and that it is, indeed, a hardware issue and not a potential idiocy of setting issue.

Thank you (anamorphic) for the Audiokarma suggestion. I will probably look to recreate this post tomorrow.

The tape monitor loop is activated and deactivated by the button above tape 1 and 2. Does this button go in and stay in, and when released stay out? If this is the case you have a mechanical switch. If it is just a press contact, then this loop is activated by destabilizing a tailed Darlington pair flip/flop most likely. These get very troublesome as they age. It could be this is your problem and the loop can not be switched off. If this is the problem, connect your source to the input. Now connect RCA cables between tape 1 out and tape 1 in. Now in addition to selecting the source, also press tape 1. If you then hear sound your tape monitor loop is on.

 

[markw]

how would I see if the tape monitor loop is engaged or not? I just don't remember that as being a phrase I saw directly and want to know exactly what to try tomorrow morning.

It's been suggested already in post 8, second sentence.

 

[cjfreel]

It's been suggested already in post 8, second sentence.

No I know that, I meant I hadn't seen those exact words on the Box and needed to know exactly how to check for it.

 

[cjfreel]

The monitor button is just a normal button that when pressed down lights up the word "Monitor". I connected RCA cables between the two tape 1 triggers and tried to use it with monitor on and off and it didnt work.

 

[TLS Guy]

The monitor button is just a normal button that when pressed down lights up the word "Monitor". I connected RCA cables between the two tape 1 triggers and tried to use it with monitor on and off and it didnt work.

Well that eliminates all the simple stuff. So we now know the unit has a major malfunction. It will need expert attention.

If you intend to it, then you have a long period of study and a heavy investment in equipment. For your safety always use a variable voltage transformer between the unit and the mains. That isolates it, and reduces the chance of you killing yourself and doing further damage. I use a Variac. You also need an amplified multimeter that is high impedance, a dual channel O-scope, and a signal generator for the basic list. That is the absolute bare minimum list.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[markw]

Since you have preamp outs and main ins linked by junpers, you can always try to isolate the problem area.

Remove the jumpers

Feed the preamp out to another amplifier. An Aux input will suffice if you don't have mains ins. If it works, you know the tuner/preamp stage is OK.

Feed another source with a volume control (Like a portable CD player) into the mains in. If it works, you know the power amp stage is OK.

If neither works with these methods, start looking at the power supply.

YMMV