Woofer shaking walls. HELP!!!

M

maddynator

Enthusiast
Hi Folks,
I am in really deep trouble. As from my previous thread, you would know that I recently bought a house and was hoping to listen to my HT they way it is supposed to. I was staying in apartment before and the woofer was shaking the floor. Downstairs neighbor complaint and I understood the problem and turned it down. I was hoping that in my new Townhome, I will not have any problem. However, yesterday when I was watching a movie, my next door neighbor came and told me her walls were shaking. I was so pissed (not at the neighbor, well a little bit) but because I was hoping to enjoy my home theater and now I can't even after buying my HOUSE. As now I can't move for next couple of years, this **** is really scaring me.

So I turn to you guys. Is there any way to enjoy the deep bass without making the wall shake. I have Martin Logan Dynamo 700 sub. This is what I have done so far.
1) It was kept in down firing, when neighbor came. I changed it to front firing.
2) The level was set to slightly close to mid but now its like almost 25%.

I was hoping to wall mount my rear speaker on the wall but thats the wall I share with my neighbors. Now I am thinking, if I do that, then this will cause the walls to vibrate more. So now I have to settle for speaker stands :mad:
Is that correct judgement on my part?

Please help. Is there any tricks, I can do to prevent my floor from shaking and still enjoy the bass? I think the neighbors can't hear the dialog as there is a inch thick drywall then insulation padding and then an inch thick drying wall on their side. Its most probably the sub-woofer vibrations. Will placing sub is a different location will make a difference? Right now is close to back wall and 1 meter from side wall. Will attach a picture as soon as i get home.
Also does putting spikes on sub help?

I know that people here can relate to my problem and can understand my pain.


Thanks
--maddynator
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You still have adjoining walls to your neighbors in a townhouse, so it isn't that much different than an apartment. Bass can travel through drywall and insulation with no problem. You should have moved into a standalone house if you wanted to crank your sub, and even then, the bass can still be annoying to neighbors if the houses are close to each other. A bass isolation pad might help somewhat, if the sub itself shakes when it's playing. I'm sorry to tell you, bass and close neighbors just don't mix well.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The above is true. Without building a room within a room in that townhome, you have not changed your situation from apartment living.

Make sure you do not have your sub hot, that will make things worse.

I generally find subs are set too high compromising results and causing unnecessary annoyance. Often with subs, less is more. This is especially so with the far too frequent poorly tuned ported subs, spreading globs of goop over everything.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
The first place to start is to get that sub off the floor and on to an isolation pad that fits it. The next thing to do is get those surround speakers off the wall and onto stands. That said, like the others have said you are still dealing with shared walls. Keep the volume down and pick up headphones and a bass shaker for loud listening.
 
Cruise Missile

Cruise Missile

Full Audioholic
Great suggestions here so far.

I'd also look into a receiver that has Audyssey Multeq 32XT. The reason I'm suggesting this is from personal townhome experience I've learned that a well calibrated system is far less audible through walls.

The reason for this goes back to TLS's comment as most people, including myself before becoming acclimated to proper levels of bass, run the subs too hot. Bass is very good at passing right through walls, even causing them to resonate ( shake ) at some frequencies.
The "fixes" for this are really just bandages for the bass bleed.

The auralex sub-dude works (some).
Proper calibration works (some more).
Learning your neighbors schedule works (significantly more)
Inviting your neighbors over for movie night works (better than the rest)
 
bread29

bread29

Junior Audioholic
I recently moved from a house to an apartment and my "home theater" experience has gone far downhill in terms of enjoyment. I have 2 large HSU subs and I placed them both on isolation pads. I also moved them nearfield, directly beside the couch (away from neighbor's walls). Enjoying bass with someone living 10 feet away is just not going to happen, so the only solution is to move out of a townhouse and get a house, or turn the volume down. I, for one, can't wait to move the hell out of this apartment and buy a home in the country where I can purchase 2 more subs and crank them way up!
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi Folks,
I am in really deep trouble. As from my previous thread, you would know that I recently bought a house and was hoping to listen to my HT they way it is supposed to. I was staying in apartment before and the woofer was shaking the floor. Downstairs neighbor complaint and I understood the problem and turned it down. I was hoping that in my new Townhome, I will not have any problem. However, yesterday when I was watching a movie, my next door neighbor came and told me her walls were shaking. I was so pissed (not at the neighbor, well a little bit) but because I was hoping to enjoy my home theater and now I can't even after buying my HOUSE. As now I can't move for next couple of years, this **** is really scaring me.

So I turn to you guys. Is there any way to enjoy the deep bass without making the wall shake. I have Martin Logan Dynamo 700 sub. This is what I have done so far.
1) It was kept in down firing, when neighbor came. I changed it to front firing.
2) The level was set to slightly close to mid but now its like almost 25%.

I was hoping to wall mount my rear speaker on the wall but thats the wall I share with my neighbors. Now I am thinking, if I do that, then this will cause the walls to vibrate more. So now I have to settle for speaker stands :mad:
Is that correct judgement on my part?

Please help. Is there any tricks, I can do to prevent my floor from shaking and still enjoy the bass? I think the neighbors can't hear the dialog as there is a inch thick drywall then insulation padding and then an inch thick drying wall on their side. Its most probably the sub-woofer vibrations. Will placing sub is a different location will make a difference? Right now is close to back wall and 1 meter from side wall. Will attach a picture as soon as i get home.
Also does putting spikes on sub help?

I know that people here can relate to my problem and can understand my pain.


Thanks
--maddynator
Moving the sub may help but it could sound worse at your listening position. The problem is that you moved into a townhouse, not a house. Townhouses, apartments and condos aren't built the same as a house and a bad builder will save money wherever possible, like isolating one unit from another. If y ou have a stud finder or can borrow one, check the shared wall's stud spacing- it may be 24", not the usual 16". That alone will cause a lot of problems with sound transmission.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
First thing to try, decouple your subwoofer. Get an Auralex SubDude, GRAMMA or Great GRAMMA (they're all the same thing, just different sizes). That will greatly reduce the structure-borne transmission of bass. When your subwoofer makes sound, it also physically shakes. When it is not decoupled, that shaking makes the floor shake, which makes the walls shake, which make the ceiling shake, and before you know it, your whole structure is shaking in sympathy with your subwoofer, making it VERY easy to hear bass throughout the entire structure!

So decouple. That is step #1 for sure.

Decoupling should improve things, but if you have "thin" walls, it's not going to stop your neighbor from hearing your bass entirely. If you own this townhouse, you might have to get permission from your strata to make certain changes. So check with your strata before you take on any construction. Best case, you can do whatever you want. Worst case, you'll have to have a professioinal architect and a professional engineer draw up and sign off on plans for your renovation.

The easiest renovation for soundproofing, BY FAR, is to simply add a layer (or layers) of contrained layer damping over your existing drywall. The cheapest way to do this is with a product called "green glue". You can do a google search, or you can check out acoustimac.com - they have green glue for a good price.

You squirt 2-3 tubes on green glue onto each 4' x 8' sheet of drywall and stick a new layer of drywall with the green glue on it over your existing walls and ceiling. You can also use the green glue on the floor with some new plywood or OSB - althrough you'd obviously want to remove your finished floor (carpet, tile, laminate, hard wood, etc.) so that you can glue the new layer of plywood to the existing subfloor.

The cost for this is relatively low and you don't give up too much square or cubic footage. Simply adding a second layer of drywall doesn't do much for soundproofing, but the green glue is a visco-elastic polymer, meaning that it never hardens and it turns vibration into heat. Having that constrained layer of green glue is what makes this structure considerably more "sound proof". It's not an entire "room within a room", but it's somewhat closer to that idea, with the green glue separating the existing structure from your new drywall layer.

If you're willing to spend more money, but you want the same easy renovation and low loss of square footage, then check out QuietRock.com

QuietRock is a special (and quite expensive) drywall product. It is essentially a pre-made "sandwich" that has something very similar to green glue already built into the QuietRock drywall itself. QuietRock comes in several thicknesses. For bass, you'll want the thickest (and most expensive) version, which is called 545, and it's 1 3/8" thick. You can put the QuietRock directly over your existing drywall. It's the simplest install. If you want even better results, you can put Green Glue in between your existing wall and the new QuietRock drywall!

QuietRock is now owned and sold by a company called Serious Materials. They also sell QuietWood - a replacement for plywood - as well as soundproof doors, and various sealants, underlayments, glues and coatings that all deal with sound isolation. So check out quietrock.com for a lot of ideas. But keep in mind that this stuff ain't cheap (each sheet of QuietRock is about 10x the price of a regular sheet of drywall). Where you save money is on the cost of install and on saving square footage.

Finally, you could do a rather major renovation. You could take down your existing drywall to expose the studs. Make sure that everything back there is as it should be (no obvious holes, add sound reducing insulation). Then you could build that true "room within a room". Start by building a "floated" floor. You should check out Auralex.com and their soundproofing section for a beginner's education on the traditional ways of soundproofing. Use PlatFoam or U-Boats to create a "floating" floor. Then build new walls on top of that "floating" floor and a suspended ceiling or a ceiling built on top of the "floating" walls. You can use QuietRock and QuietWood in your new "room within a room" and you can use Green Glue as well.

The cost for this is high and you lose a lot of cubic footage as well. But it's the absolute best in terms of soundproofing.

As a last resort, there are the digital equalization methods. Audyssey is introducing LFC (Low Frequency Containment) as a new program into some higher end receivers and pre/pros this year. LFC basically silences the most common resonant frequencies (the ones that really shake your walls, just due to resonance). LFC then creates "replacement bass" at frequencies that are not typically resonant within most rooms. You lose accuracy and correct pitch in the bass, but for movies, you still get bass impact, but without the room resonance. I have no idea how effective it is yet or how good or bad it sounds, but at least it's an idea :p

Hope that helps!
 
timoteo

timoteo

Audioholic General
As briefly mentioned earlier i highly recommend getting a bass shaker/tacte transducer!! You can turn your sub down a bit more & yet still get the visceral effects of the bass but silently. It only send those vibrations through your couch & not to your neighbors. Your brain takes the shaking & perceives them as sound. I got one thinking it would probably be a little cheesy but was very impressed with how real it feels & how much it adds to the movie experience. I even turned my 2 12" subs down to cut down on distortion. Everyone that comes over is highly impressed with it too. Its one of the most fun improvements ive made to my system.

I also agree with adding either another 2x4 wall, insulated in front of your existing wall or green glueing 5/8" drywall right onto you wall that you share. There are also sound proofing blankets you can hang up that really help. You can take them down when not listening at loud volumes. Cant remember the name of them, google it!!

Hope this helps!!
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
About the only three choices you have are, #1 turn the bass down, #2 move #3 long headphone cord


Adding Insulation to muff the sound will also depend on the floors and ceiling as well. Wooden floors if you have them will transmit that deep bass right into the other apartments. It's going to be a expense to continue to add sound damping insulation. Once a neighbor has experienced that low bass thump, their ears will be tuned and could be a bad experience for years to come.

Do you own this place ?
 
M

maddynator

Enthusiast
Yes I do.. recently bought it.... specifically bought a townhome as condos have more of this problem and did not want a single family home. I though townhomes have thick walls and isolation between them but never realized that this could be that bad....
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Any common walls facilitate the transmission of bass frequencies. For what you want to do, you need a dwelling with no comon walls to any other dwelling.

It's a little late now, but a little lurking/reading here before this purchase would have helped, particularly since you were here looking for help with a problem in an apartment.
 
M

maddynator

Enthusiast
Yes markw. I realize that now. Anyway, I did read more about it. Changed orientation to front firing (Big help), then used Audyssey to tune it again. Although I don't really like the Audyssey setting as now I can't really hear my rear speaker. The system is still not at the best settings as I would like. I usually keep an eye when my neighbor is out before I start tuning my system. But with more reading I have found how setting woofer volume to high can just give more bass then the feel. Right now its about 25% - 30% on the volume knob which seems to do work but its not quite there yet. I guess I need to keep on tweeking until I reach the config I like.

Thanks :)
 
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