wood acoustic panels vs regular acoustic panels

J

jrcrunch

Enthusiast
what are the pros and cons of wood acoustic panels?

how does it perform vs the regular ones? can i do mix and match?

here are some my concerns and questions
wood acoustic panels
-safer for people with allergies?
-free from asbestos?
-price?

regular acoustic panels
-if home theater room is closed most of the time, will your room will smell?
-hazardous if made with glasswool or asbestos like materials?
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TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Absorption panels are made of rigid fiber glass panels, typically manufactured by Owens Corning. Its an insulating construction material, but has found additional use in sound absorption. They are wrapped in specific types of cloth that allow some energy thru to be absorbed by the panel, and others to graze the fabric and be dissipated as heat. Thickness of the panel is indicative of what frequency range it will absorb. i.e. bass frequencies below 300 hz can require 6-8in + thick absorbers.

The wooden panel you posted is not an absorber or diffusor as far as I can tell. Diffusors are the opposite of absorbers. They are different in that they are covered in small pieces set at different angles, so that any sound wave hitting them is scattered randomly rather than bouncing off the wall right back at the listener. Check out GIK Acoustics, I have several of their panels to control a room echo (high ceiling) and a few other issues with my living room doubling as an HT.

Now the question is: what problem(s) are you hearing?

There is a HUGE misconception in the market place that drives people to turn their Home Theaters in to recording studios, and absorb everything. Ever sat in a room free from reflection? It's not comfortable for a lot of people. Small room acoustics are a different animal to concert halls and recording studios, and while the principles are the same, the treatments are different!
 
J

jrcrunch

Enthusiast
what are you opinions about polyester acoustic panels?
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
what are you opinions about polyester acoustic panels?
Dude, you're all over the place. You need to educate yourself on the purpose, use, and types of acoustic treatment available. Otherwise you run the risk of being swayed by flashy websites with low prices, and no purpose.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Dude, you're all over the place. You need to educate yourself on the purpose, use, and types of acoustic treatment available. Otherwise you run the risk of being swayed by flashy websites with low prices, and no purpose.
I could not agree more. The OP sounds as if he has a solution in search of a problem.

Most domestic rooms do NOT need treatment, contrary to what you have read. Room reflections are important to natural reproduction.

Most people looking to treat rooms in fact have lousy speakers. Speakers appear to cause room problems in the bass when the Q is too high. This is prevalent as manufacturers and DIYers try to tune their enclosures too low, and end up with deeper but inferior bass. This problem is just rampant.

The next problem is speakers with a poor dispersion pattern. A good speaker will have an off axis response that mirrors the on axis response, but with an HF roll off. Whilst dealing with room reflections can improve a poor performing speaker in this regard, a much better solution is to replace the speakers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Most domestic rooms do NOT need treatment, contrary to what you have read. Room reflections are important to natural reproduction.

Most people looking to treat rooms in fact have lousy speakers. Speakers appear to cause room problems in the bass when the Q is too high. This is prevalent as manufacturers and DIYers try to tune their enclosures too low, and end up with deeper but inferior bass. This problem is just rampant.

The next problem is speakers with a poor dispersion pattern. A good speaker will have an off axis response that mirrors the on axis response, but with an HF roll off. Whilst dealing with room reflections can improve a poor performing speaker in this regard, a much better solution is to replace the speakers.
I have to disagree with your comment that most rooms don't need treatment and I agree that reverberation is needed, but many rooms are too live, shaped badly WRT dimentional proportions and reflective vs absorptive vs diffusive surfaces. I also agree about bad dispersion patterns. That said, if hand claps in any room reveal echo, the reflections need to be dealt with.

My living room isn't huge, it's not a rectangle (it opens to the kitchen, a hallway and other rooms and the floor is carpeted. The system can't be centered on the front wall and a doorway is behind the right end of my sofa, with the kitchen to the right of my listening position. After I built the speakers with the crossovers you provided (thanks, again), I had a hard time positioning them without hearing comb filtering effects when I moved through the seating areas or walked through the room. The response in a non-reverberent space (outdoors, on a calm day, aimed toward nothing in particular and no hard surfaces) was measured and smooth throughout the bass through treble range, with the expected roll-off above the mid-upper 30Hz area (dual 6-1/2" Peerless 830874 woofers) and I'm not worried about the lowest octave as much because I don't generally listen to pipe organ or other music that demands the lowest extension and I don't want to disturb anyone.

I had made some panels to demonstrate their abilities for a home theater client a few years ago, so I decided to bring them up, to find out if they would help. I fired up Room EQ Wizard, positioned my mic and as usual, I saw a deep trough in the response in the 60Hz-100Hz range. I had tried changing the distance to the side walls, front wall, toe-in, distance from each other, distance to me, my position, height, tilted them back- nothing worked. As I brought the panels in, I started by placing one at the left and right walls, to catch the first reflections- the longer path length of the reflected sound adds enough delay that it's annoying, especially with percussive music, speech and vocal music. I also hear the reflections coming from the right and left speakers, from their opposite walls. I could treat them, but one is at a window and the other is the side of a kitchen cabinet. The first panels helped- I could watch the response change as I added each one. I then put a panel in the front corners and that made a major improvement. I added one to the left rear corner and saw more improvement and when I placed another above the first, it helped again. The last panel I had went into the right front corner and the whole time, I watched the improvements until the trough was gone. I moved the mic around the seating area and the trough never reappeared. I did spend more time positioning the speakers when I started carrying Parasound and installed the preamp and power amp, but the response has improved immensely since I placed the panels. I can now move around the room and in stereo (I don't have a surround system because of the layout- it doesn't lend itself to surround speakers), the dialog comes from dead center between the speakers, even if I'm past 90 degrees to the right speaker. The response sounds exceptionally even as the notes move through the musical scale, without causing fatigue. I rarely listen at high SPL (if I hit 95dB, it might have been one or twice, for less than a minute), but the stereo image holds up until I reach about 90dB, which is when I really hear the reflections on the opposite walls of the speakers.

WRT tuning too low, I specifically avoided that because I don't want the speakers to fall on their faces when the low end comes in but after seeing a TV show (Ultimate Restorations- you might like some of their projects), I found some videos with the pipe in Atlantic City that has 64' pipes and it reinforced the fact that if those frequencies are played through speakers without a dedicated mid-range driver or subwoofer, the mid-range frequencies will be terribly modulated when the lowest notes come in. These did surprisingly well, considering the frequencies involved. I'd really like to hear them through your system.

These are photos of the room where someone wants me to install a home theater- I did a rough measurement for RT60 and at some frequencies, it's >6 seconds, most are over >2 seconds. Terazzo floor, plaster on wood lath ceiling and plaster on brick walls with the brick attached to poured concrete. Not a typical room, but it needs to perform well.
 

Attachments

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
what are the pros and cons of wood acoustic panels?

how does it perform vs the regular ones? can i do mix and match?

here are some my concerns and questions
wood acoustic panels
-safer for people with allergies?
-free from asbestos?
-price?
The materials used are selected, based on the needs of the room. It needs a good balance of absorption, reflection and diffusion, in order to prevent excessive reverberation, prevent it being acoustically "dead" and allowing the sound's 'decay' rate to make the recordings seem as if they're as real as possible, even if the sense of space is created in a studio, with electronic effects.

Asbestos can't be used anymore, but fiberglass can become a problem if it's bumped, rubbed or scraped and is uncovered. Sealing it with varnish prevents that but as soon as the surface has been sealed, it stops being effective as an acoustical absorber.

If you can post the room's dimensions, surface materials, stage of construction (is it a new room, or are you making an existing room into a music/theater?), expected SPL during use, whether you plan to use carpet or rugs, etc.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The materials used are selected, based on the needs of the room. It needs a good balance of absorption, reflection and diffusion, in order to prevent excessive reverberation, prevent it being acoustically "dead" and allowing the sound's 'decay' rate to make the recordings seem as if they're as real as possible, even if the sense of space is created in a studio, with electronic effects.

Asbestos can't be used anymore, but fiberglass can become a problem if it's bumped, rubbed or scraped and is uncovered. Sealing it with varnish prevents that but as soon as the surface has been sealed, it stops being effective as an acoustical absorber.

If you can post the room's dimensions, surface materials, stage of construction (is it a new room, or are you making an existing room into a music/theater?), expected SPL during use, whether you plan to use carpet or rugs, etc.
Apart from square rooms, which always sound awful, I have pretty much given up figuring out why some rooms sound good and some lousy.

I do know that an active echo does not preclude a room sounding very good. I have this room here that I thought would be a problem child. It turns out the room sounds excellent, especially for choral music.

It is very open. It has a substantial echo.







Even sitting right out by the fire, it still images well.



No way you could do 5.1 or 7.1 in that room, but you don't need it. It just envelops you in glorious sound.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Apart from square rooms, which always sound awful, I have pretty much given up figuring out why some rooms sound good and some lousy.

I do know that an active echo does not preclude a room sounding very good. I have this room here that I thought would be a problem child. It turns out the room sounds excellent, especially for choral music.

It is very open. It has a substantial echo.

Even sitting right out by the fire, it still images well.


No way you could do 5.1 or 7.1 in that room, but you don't need it. It just envelops you in glorious sound.
Nice place- lots of short surfaces help a lot to disrupt the energy so standing waves aren't a problem. Also, SPL matters, a lot. When I met with the people who own the home in the photos, I explained that sound in a room similar to that is like ping pong balls in a hurricane or the balls on a billiard table: louder = longer time spent bouncing off of multiple surfaces. Below some point that's determined by the shape & size of the room and the sounds' energy, it will sound great but as soon as it reaches the threshold, percussive sounds will echo and in smaller rooms, 'flutter' echo can be heard. Clap your hands once and listen when you enter a room that is undergoing an audio system installation and you may be surprised by the echo. The lack of fatigue, better focus to the directionality and tonal balance all improve with a bit of judicious furniture placement. The photo of the wall where the TV is located tells me that the chairs are right where they need to be, in order to deal with the first reflections and if you were to remove them (leaving the sofa where it is), you would no longer say it images well but again, the source material and SPL are important in the sound quality difference. The need for treatments is largely determined by the application- if the music and soundtracks are often at high SPL, it's not optional, IMO. At lower SPL, it's not necessary to put something on the walls/ceiling that nobody wants to see.
 
J

jrcrunch

Enthusiast
here are the room specification
3.8 to 4.1m (width) x 6.3m (length/depth)x 2.6m height

or

12.46 to 13.45 (width)x 20.66 (length/depth) x8.5 (height) in feet. there will be 2 rows in my home theater


the room is just concrete now.

here are my speakers
focal Aria 926 floor standing
focal Aria cc900 center speakers
focal chorus sr700 in wall speakers
focal custom ic108 -- in ceiling speakers for atmos
JL audio e112 -subwoofer
denon xr6200- receiver
emotiva xpa200- extra amps for 7.1.4 atmos

sorry im everywhere. im am a newbie so i joined forums like this. thank you for all the inputs and replies. highly appreciate it.
 

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TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
here are the room specification
3.8 to 4.1m (width) x 6.3m (length/depth)x 2.6m height

or

12.46 to 13.45 (width)x 20.66 (length/depth) x8.5 (height) in feet. there will be 2 rows in my home theater


the room is just concrete now.

here are my speakers
focal Aria 926 floor standing
focal Aria cc900 center speakers
focal chorus sr700 in wall speakers
focal custom ic108 -- in ceiling speakers for atmos
JL audio e112 -subwoofer
denon xr6200- receiver
emotiva xpa200- extra amps for 7.1.4 atmos

sorry im everywhere. im am a newbie so i joined forums like this. thank you for all the inputs and replies. highly appreciate it.
Excellent! You are building a NEW Theatre, have the equipment, and have NOT yet begun construction?

That question is important, because then it becomes a question of; how far you are willing to take this!? Performing the work yourself keeps this very inexpensive, as, atleast here anyway, construction materials are relatively inexpensive.

So before we get to acoustic treatment, lets get this place built correctly!
 
J

jrcrunch

Enthusiast
yes and i am a newbie about this. we are getting some contractors since I cant build them myself due to allergies and lack of knowledge. im just want to know if am getting my money's worth.

the concrete room is already done.

target move in will be in june :)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If possible, build the larger of the two rooms. :D

In order to understand why some recommendations will come WRT treatment, it's best to understand that low frequencies need to be seen as pressurizing the room, vs sound that will just bounce off of objects and surfaces, so materials that work for higher frequencies won't necessarily do anything to help the bass, unless a lot of the material is used.

I would look at Room EQ Wizard- it's a free download and the latest version has a room simulator that lets you see a calculated frequency response, based on room dimensions, reflectivity of the surfaces, subwoofer location(s), listener position and height of their head. You can move the sub(s) in the space by pacing your cursor over it, left click and drag it around- same for the listener position and head height. Even if you don't know everything it's showing, if the response looks like a zig-zagging line, it's not good, As long as the variations aren't too severe, it will probably work but those narrow, deep notches can't be removed using equalization, so avoiding the conditions that caused them is best. You don't need flat response, you want smooth and free from notches.
 
montanhasan

montanhasan

Audiophyte
I had problems with water infiltration in my movie theater and had to redo everything. lucky that I have a trusted engineer friend who helped me in this process. I also found a very good sales site staff that helped me a lot.
Reform of the house demands a lot of work, it took me 2 months to complete the renovation. But it's worth seeing everything working properly and the way I want it.
 
J

jackyanto

Audiophyte
I strongly suggest Poly fibre acoustic panel, which is a new decorative material made of 100% recycled polyester fiber with sound absorbing function. Polyester fibre acoustic panel creates a quieter space for work and life. The structure is simpler and easier to cut into different shapes by machine.
 
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