won $100 off AV123 what to buy?

[kleinwl]

I just reciently won a $100 off at AV123... what do you suggest I buy?

My living room is 12x16x8 (seating position is across the 12' aprox 10' from the 27" tv). which opens (7' opening) into the kitchen which is 12'x20'x8' (12' deep from living room) My current home theater consists of a 27" toshiba CRT (480i) with built in speakers (all of 2 watts?).

I've been waiting to buy a tv (pioneer / panasonic plasma) once I get some money together along with a ht system. I would say my budget is non-existant now.. but around 2-3K by December (and maybe a 1K by end of april (tax refunds?!))

The question is how would you spend this money?
My though is to buy the Onyx x-ls speakers ($500)
A HSU VTF-2 MK2 ($400)
A Pioneer Reciever "vsx-816" ($300) - actually this will be whatever's new later this year, since I want HDMI if it drops to entry level recievers.
TV ($800 - $1800) - I expect another 30% price drop between now and December, so this could be a 50" if I'm right.

Does this make sense... or would you suggest something else?

 

[jcPanny]

AV123 gear

You should be able to put together a great theather with the av123 X-series speakers. Use your discount and start with a pair of the X-ls bookshelf speakers. By December, there should be several additional models in their product line up.

Since your budget is currently limited, pick up a stereo receiver for a thrift store or pawn shop to power the speakers until you are ready for a full HT.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Do what JC said and then go get the Panasonic 50" plasma for 1500 bucks from CC as fast as you can get there.

 

[j_garcia]

Sounds good except for the receiver. The X-LSs will be OK with the low power, but they are relatively low sensitivity and actually work better with a lot of power thrown at them. With a lower powered amp, they may lose some dynamics when played at lower levels and you may find yourself needing to turn it up. I'd spend a little more on the receiver.

 

[kleinwl]

Thanks guys.

What level of power would you suggest for the X-Ls? And would it make sense to buy a X-cs for the center channel?

Do you guys suggest buying a 2.1 system first (ie. two X-Ls and a Sub) or buying a 5.0 system and putting in the sub when I get the chance?

Do you guys agree on buying the HSU sub vs. just getting the x-sub?

And to answer the comment above, if I had $1500, I would buy the panasonic now... but since that's not the case, I figure I can spend a little less and get some update audio for when I watch movies, lisen to CDs and such.

BTW: My DVD player is a 2 year old Progressive DVD/VHS combo made by go-video (or something like that). Although it was a gift... I figure it was about $50 at walmart. Does it make sense to cut the budget on the tv/speakers, to upgrade the player?

 

[j_garcia]

I'd recommend something like the Yamaha 659, a product of the year here on AH. I do agree with the VTF-2 vs the X-sub. I would do a 2.1 or 3.1 to start. Yes, the X-CS makes sense as the center, or if 2.1 only, maybe two X-CSs for mains (if it is a larger room)? The X-LSs have pretty good bass, but a sub is still needed with them IMO, unless it is a small room.

For the player, I'd just get an Oppo 970HD for $149 and be done with that. You will have a fine player without spending top dollar. If your current TV doesn't have HDMI though, then I'd wait until you buy your new one.

 

[kleinwl]

Main room is aprox 2000 cu ft... although it opens into a kitchen area that adds another ~ 2000 cu ft (I'm not sure if I should count the total area though, since it is has only 7' connection... maybe it only adds ~ 7*12*8 (672). In any case, I lean to the X-LS since they are smaller (WAF) and they are good down to 55 HZ.

So.. the expectation would be:
2 X-LS = $140
Yamaha 659 = $350
Cables = $40
Hsu VTF-2 Mk2= $430
Total spend = $960

That seems within my budget. However looking at the the Yanaha 659 vs the pioneer vsx-816:
_________Pioneer___________Yamaha
Price_____$270_____________$350
Power____110x7____________100x7
Upconvert__________________X

Since upconversion is not of interest to me at this time (once I have a tv, I'll rely on the internal scalers to do that, which should be better since they are two years newer). I do not see the advantage of the Yamaha over the newer Pioneer. So it would seem to me that I would be better off saving the $80 to go towards a HR20 (once I get an HD tv).

The Yamaha 461 just came out as well at $350. It has 100x5 watts and seems very compariable to the Pioneer 816.

Is there anything that I am missing?

Thanks!

 

[j_garcia]

Yes, the Pioneer is rated at 1kHz, so that power spec is a bit misleading. I promise the Yamaha will have more power and will be worth the price difference. That $80 is worth not having to upgrade sooner when you find the 816 isn't enough, if you ask me. The Yamaha's amp section tested very well in the AH review. There is also a 14lb difference (almost double) between the two of them, in favor of the Yamaha, and at this price point that can be VERY telling of the true capabilities amp wise.

 

[kleinwl]

I believe it that the Yamaha will be able to drive my speakers quite a bit better than the Pioneer will. I'm just having a hard time understanding how much better they will be.
I started to try to figure out how much power is required:

The X-Ls minium impedience is 5 ohms at 3KHz and maxium of 27 ohms at 1KHz.

According to P=I^2*R
100W at 8ohm is only 3.5Amps (aprox) - Amplifier power.

So, with a 5 ohm impedience, and equal amperage, I should be driving the reciever with aprox 61 Watts of power.

So... can I say that this is enough? There is no IEC power requirement information from AV123. The room is small enough (2000 sqft) that I don't want to have the system at 120dB

AV123 gives efficency at 87dB at 1watt/1meter. If I am 3 meters away, what is the volume decay that I can expect? and does this mean that pumping 61 watts is going to be 6*3dB higher (6 doubling of power) = 18dB?
So... if the speaker outputs 87dB at 1watt/1meter. Can I expect it to output 105dB at 61watt/1meter. And does the volume decay mean that I can expect the sound to drop by 6dB at 2 meters and another 3dB at 3 meters... giving me 96dB of sound (MAX) at my lisening position? Since I don't want the volume to be much higher than 80dB max (a noisy resturant is about 70dB, a hair drier 80dB) Doesn't this say I have sufficent power (since I could theorectically drive this with only 16 Watts?

William

 

[j_garcia]

No, I believe you double decay as you move further away, so it would be -12dB at 3m (I'll have to check that), however the formula for actual calculation of how much power you need isn't exactly that simple because there are SO many factors to consider such as room gain (reflections), materials within the room (lots of reflections or few?), the speaker's impedance curve over its frequency range (impedance varies with frequency), and what you are playing and how loud.

Under normal listening conditions the average speaker only draws about 5-10 watts realistically, if that. It is under peak demand where you find out whether you have enough power for a given speaker in a given room. Peaks can demand suddent bursts of over 10X the power to deliver the transients so that means you should to be able to deliver 100w minimum any given time (theoretically) if called for. At average listening levels, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two receivers, but when watching a big action flick with it cranked up, during the big explosions is where you would tend to notice where one runs out of steam vs the other.

 

[kleinwl]

Ahh... so what you are saying is that realistically both amps will provide more than enough power excepting the times during a movie that the volume increases significantly (ie another 12dB) due to an special effect or the like. And it is in this condition that I need a large amp. So, to have a true comparison, I need to learn how much draw the pioneer can make at max as I see with the Yamaha.

That makes perfect sense... I'm just wondering if there is any way to better quanitify the amount of power that I need.

William

 

[j_garcia]

Yep that is what I am saying. You can always try out the 816 and it may be enough for what your particular needs and situation. I tend to err on the side of more power; in other words, that extra power is almost always worth the additional cost.