Wiring House - Mulitple Room Setup

[diceman725]

I'm a neophite at all this stuff, bit I've been through a number of the threads on this and other sites... Am beginning a project to wire my house and want to validate my solution...

Currently have a Kenwood receiver/amplifier - 100W per channel. No interest in replacing it at the moment. Speaker channel A drives sound in our main entertainment room. I'm planning on splitting channel B to 3 rooms. I already have a Radio Shack 4-speaker selector which I guess does impedance matching internally. But, I want to have individual speaker volume controls at each location. So...

1. First, I want to send a signal outside to our patio. Best solution I've been able to find for this is the Niles WVC100 weather-proof volume control. It does its own impedance matching

2. Want to send a signal inside to living room. I've seen impedance matching and non-impedance matching volume controls. I'm assuming since I already have impedance mangement on the speaker selector, I don't need to spend the extra money.

3. Want to send the third signal to our den. Speakers I have in here at the moment actually have a built in amplifier. I haven't seen anything to tell me this will be a problem. Nevertheless, planning on a non-impendance matching volume control here as well.

So, I guess my questions are 1) Can I mix and match impedence matching and non-impendence matching controls if I have it on the speaker selector. 2) should I get rid of the speaker selector, do impedence matching at each location and go with a speaker hub instead. 3) will the amplified speakers in the den pose a problem with the rest of the solution.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BMXTRIX]

1. I am not aware of any issues if you mix and match volume controls as long as the impedence is matched you should be fine.

2. Yes, you can ditch the speaker selector, but it actually helps to regulate power to each zone so your zones that are 'ON' have more power when the other zones are 'OFF'.

3. The amplified speakers are almost definitely an issue. You are not providing 'audio' you are providing amplfied audio. The inputs to those speakers will likely be fried if you feed an amplified audio signal into them. Typically line level operates at a very low power level, while an amplified audio signal operates hundred of times more powerfully.

I would stronly recommend: Pick up a external amplifier from eBay or some such bargain hunting place and run the external rooms off of it. Running extra rooms off the 'B' channel will definitely affect the output of the receiver for your main system and will greatly increase the risk to your main receiver should something be wired incorrectly. For an extra hundred bucks or so, you could pick up an outboard amp that will provide you with extra power to the extra rooms and give you peace of mind in knowing that your receiver is still doing only what it was meant to do.

 

[diceman725]

Thanks for your response... I'm assuming that connecting two amplifiers is relatively simple to do?

 

[BMXTRIX]

No, do not hook two amplifiers EVER.

Use a low level output from your receiver. The most obvious one that I would recommend is 'VCR OUT'. Don't use the 'B' channel, which is amplfied.

The VCR OUT is a unamplfied signal that matches whatever is playing in the main zone and can be sent directly into an amplfier where it can go out to a speaker selector that can turn on and off rooms. Those rooms in turn can have the volume controls in them that turn up/down the volume.

Plus, those stinkin' 'ampflied' speakers need to go in the garbage for almost anything else. If sound quality isn't of great importance, you can get some background music speakers at CC/BB for about 20 or 30 bucks a pair. Yeah, cheap and wimpy, but they work. I have bought some cheap in-ceilings on eBay for my garage and they sound far better than I expected they would have. Good volume, good quality, great price.

 

[diceman725]

Thanks for your help...

Garage... Wasnt it my plan - think it will be now.

 

[Duffinator]

Thanks for your response... I'm assuming that connecting two amplifiers is relatively simple to do?

Did you mean in parallel or series? BMX, can't he run seperate amps for different zones in parallel?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Did you mean in parallel or series? BMX, can't he run seperate amps for different zones in parallel?

mrrr... I definitely meant you can't do it in series.

That is, you can't amplify the audio out of your receiver (channel 'B') then run it into another amplifier.

If you run amplified audio out of your receiver (channel 'B') and run that straight to a room and also run the VCR-OUT into an amplifier directly, then to rooms, that is fine.

Or, you could split the VCR-OUT to multiple amplifiers (one for each room).

Traditionally, what I listed is the typical inexpensive way of doing things. Most new mid-line receivers use 'zone-2 out', but you can use VCR-OUT to accomplish a similar result . Then into a single amplifier of decent quality, then through a speaker selector, then to several in-wall volume controls, finally to several pairs of in-ceiling/on-wall/bookshelf speakers.

There are some amps that are rated stable to 2 ohms which allow for up to 3 pairs of speakers to be added (3 rooms) without the need for any impedence matching at all.

 

[diceman725]

Hey, what may be another stupid question. I've purchased some volume controls that I'll be installing in several walls. Some walls are insulated, others are not. I'm not planning on putting any boxes in the walls to put volume controls into. Just going to remove the insulation around the volume controls. Is that going to be a problem?

 

[BMXTRIX]

No, not a problem. Low voltage + insulation, should not be an issue at all and just a simple trim ring is usually all that is necessary.

 

[RLA]

Quick,cheap and easy Ya I know my wife allready made a comment about that
These are available at Home Depot for about $2each

 

[BMXTRIX]

If it is new constructon, go with trim rings from Carlon available at Home Depot/Lowes. You hammer them in place, when drywall goes up, the drywallers will cut out around them for you (less work for you later) and you have a place to run your wires to ahead of time (instead of stapling them to walls)

I personally do NOT like the Carlon orange box pictured above, as it tends to stick off the wall a bit more than it needs to and twists a bit when you tighten the securing flaps.

I have had much better luck with this style:

Which should be available all over, but you can purchase online from Smarthome.com

You could also consider this route if you are going with volume controls that will be next to light switches in the home, which is a very cool, very CLEAN way of doing things:

Look at the lower right box, with the low-voltage divider plate. Meets National Electic Code and lets you put both high and low voltage in the same box. So, a lightswitch and your volume control can have just one box and one cover plate on the wall. Very clean.

This is also an excellent way to run a subwoofer setup where you need an outlet for your powered sub, but also need a RCA connection for the sub itself.

HECK: Just look at this page for some nifty ideas...
http://www.smarthome.com/25401.html

 

[RLA]

I personally do NOT like the Carlon orange box pictured above, as it tends to stick off the wall a bit more than it needs to and twists a bit when you tighten the securing flaps

I have both types on my truck I have not had any problems with the orange boxes The one's I dont like are the metal caddy boxes There are many choices now