Will my Yamaha RXz9 work better with an amp

[mikhail Littlemeyer]

Hi,

I have a Yamaha rxz9 receiver and Klipsch R7-series speakers. The two fronts Rf-7s. Center Rc-7. And surrounds Rs-7s I.m guessing. A Klipsch representative informed me that my speakers might be underpowered by the receiver which I believe is supplying 170w per channel. I believe that my front speakers are 250w or 300w. I want to know what I should do to optimally power them in a way that balances performance and price that matches a modest budget. For example would I benefit from hooking up an amp like the Emotiva XPA gen 3 to my receiver? Can I even do this with my receiver and if so will it provide more optimal power without any noticeable decrease in sound quality or any other trade off?

Thanks

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Shockingly bad information from a Klipsch representative. With a 101 dB sensitivity rating, the RF-7 is one of the most efficient speakers on the market, which means it puts out a lot of volume for the amplifier power fed to it.

By contrast, sensitivity specs of most other speakers are commonly in the 85-89 dB range. Take a speaker with a 87 dB sensitivity rating as an example: Hook it up to your system, play it at a comfortable volume. Then disconnect it and hook up the Klipsch, and the sound level will be about 14 dB louder. Fourteen decibles!

Bottom line, you can run those speakers at ear-bleeding levels using only a fraction of the power your Z9 has. An outboard amplifier would be a waste of money.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[j_garcia]

The wattage rating on the speaker is the point at which it will fail, not how much power it needs. The rep clearly has no clue. Optimal output depends on your room, how far away from them you sit, listening habits, what you're listening to at a given time, etc... so nobody can say that an amp will or will not make an improvement really, except to say that it is highly unlikely given your system.

 

[mikhail Littlemeyer]

Well thank you both, but I am getting distortion running it at the levels I am running it. I get distortion turning up the receiver at around -5db driving 5 channels and at -1.5db driving the two fronts only. Should that be the case. Yes it is very loud at that level with the fronts but there is more distortion when driving the five speakers at that lower volume. Should I not be able to get to turn it up to zero DB on the receiver without distortion? I manually changed the front speakers to large in the settings as the auto setup had them as small. Are my center and rear speakers intuit series large too? Or small. It idid hurt my ears while I was inside, though. But when I am outside it is a whole different story.

 

[everettT]

If your running a sub, set your speakers small.

 

[j_garcia]

Small is correct for all of your speakers.

 

[everettT]

You might want to check out the setup portion of this review

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-RX-Z9

 

[mikhail Littlemeyer]

I'm not running a sub right now so if I want more bass out of my front speakers should they be set to large? And should I be hearing distortion with my receiver volume turned up to less than 0 db as I mentioned occurring above?

 

[everettT]

I'm not running a sub right now so if I want more bass out of my front speakers should they be set to large? And should I be hearing distortion with my receiver volume turned up to less than 0 db as I mentioned occurring above?

Yes no sub is large. 0db is very loud, but do make a difference with an external amp based on your z9 specs you would have to go to 400 wpc. I'd recommend get a good sub first to help. Is what your hearing only at extreme volumes? Is it both speakers distorting ? It's possible that for listening at those levels you could need an external amp. I'd fathom to say that at those levels frequently, hearing loss will begin to occur.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Well thank you both, but I am getting distortion running it at the levels I am running it. I get distortion turning up the receiver at around -5db driving 5 channels and at -1.5db driving the two fronts only. Should that be the case. Yes it is very loud at that level with the fronts but there is more distortion when driving the five speakers at that lower volume. Should I not be able to get to turn it up to zero DB on the receiver without distortion? I manually changed the front speakers to large in the settings as the auto setup had them as small. Are my center and rear speakers intuit series large too? Or small. It idid hurt my ears while I was inside, though. But when I am outside it is a whole different story.

How did you level match all your channels with the internal test tone of that receiver?
As stated, so close to possible reference level is very loud indeed.
I run mine at -20 dB to -15 dB and to some( guess who) still plenty loud.
But I properly calibrated the setup.

 

[mikhail Littlemeyer]

How did you level match all your channels with the internal test tone of that receiver?
As stated, so close to possible reference level is very loud indeed.
I run mine at -20 dB to -15 dB and to some( guess who) still plenty loud.
But I properly calibrated the setup.

I used the microphone auto setup. So I just set everything to "zero" "flat" sorry I don't know the terminology because i don't really know anything about this stuff even after trying to read up on it.

 

[mikhail Littlemeyer]

Yes no sub is large. 0db is very loud, but do make a difference with an external amp based on your z9 specs you would have to go to 400 wpc. I'd recommend get a good sub first to help. Is what your hearing only at extreme volumes? Is it both speakers distorting ? It's possible that for listening at those levels you could need an external amp. I'd fathom to say that at those levels frequently, hearing loss will begin to occur.

Yeah distortion comes in on the two fronts when using only the fronts on stereo at between between -2 and -3 db and around -5 when using 5 channels. When playing CD, SACD, DVD-A. But yeah my ears still hurt from playing it at that level. BTW when it was all auto adjusted I would have to turn it up way above 0 db. What ways in all would setting up a subwoofer help?

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah distortion comes in on the two fronts when using only the fronts on stereo at between between -2 and -3 db and around -5 when using 5 channels. When playing CD, SACD, DVD-A. But yeah my ears still hurt from playing it at that level. BTW when it was all auto adjusted I would have to turn it up way above 0 db. What ways in all would setting up a subwoofer help?

Music doesn't really adhere to the standard of using 0dB as "reference", that's a movies thing. What do you mean when it was calibrated you would have to turn it way above 0dB....what did you do in setup to change that? Subs can take some of the heaviest load an amp for the speakers has to handle....bass. Subs are better at bass frequencies than speakers in most all cases, too.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... But yeah my ears still hurt from playing it at that level. .... What ways in all would setting up a subwoofer help?

Well, that alone should tell you something, that you are plying it way too loud, ear damaging loud. Over time hearing degradation and loss.

Those speakers are not meant to handle the lows, 80 Hz and below, very well at exciting levels.
A powered sub on the other hand is designed just for that. Most likely that is the reason why you are playing it so loud to get the bass. You need a sub with at least 15" driver.

Maybe others can fill you in on level matching how to.

 

[markw]

I'm not running a sub right now so if I want more bass out of my front speakers should they be set to large? And should I be hearing distortion with my receiver volume turned up to less than 0 db as I mentioned occurring above?

speakers do have their physical limitations. It sounds like you've reached yours.

Tower speakers don't reproduce really deep, strong, bass. They tend to fall off un the mid bass category. You can feed tem more power, up to the stated maximum they but it won't give you any more bass. they will just distort even more. When you feed them more power to try to get more bass, everything gets louder, not just the now overdriven woofers.

For more bass, you need a subwoofer, pure and simple.

 

[3db]

You are playing your speakers too loud (especially in full range) causing them to distort. Your speakers are the limiting factor here, not the AVR. Like so many others have posted here, you need to offload the bass from your speakers to a sub. Get a sub.

 

[PENG]

I don't think we know enough about what's going on until the OP answers the questions in post#13 and his room size (cu.ft/cu.m), some info of the media contents (MP3, CD quality etc.) and at what dB SPL he is actually getting at volume 0.

If he had his system calibrated properly and the volume set to the "relative scale". If his room is small to medium size, listening at above volume 0 would be ridiculously loud but even then neither the amp nor the RF7s (with 2X10" woofers each) should not distort so audibly for reasons others cited already unless he cranked the volume way pass 0 to harmfully loud level.

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a800_black__u/5119/5949/

By the way, I lost count of how many people came to ask about adding amps for their Klipsch speakers recently. Anyone know why Klipsch speakers are so popular these days???

 

[markw]

By the way, I lost count of how many people came to ask about adding amps for their Klipsch speakers recently. Anyone know why are Klipsch speakers are so popular these days???

Creative, glitzy advertising and perhaps giving potential customers an unrealistic expectation of what they can do. Of course, there's always the rich historical perspective of being made by the same company that made great (for their time) large speakers.

In any case, we do seem to be seeing quite a few customers who seem to expect more from than they can deliver.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Klipsch is awesome!! When I worked for a dealer, I sold 40,000 in less than a year, in Klipsch speakers. Klipsch rewarded me. Thank you Klipsch. I also have a Z9, this is more than enough power, too power RF-7's or RF-7ii's. I bought the Mcintosh because I was sent to Mcintosh for training. The Mcintosh definitely sounds more musical to my ears. Set the RF-7's to small, and cross them over at 60 or 80hz. Make sure the Z9 impedance selector is at 8 ohms.. And get and nice SUB OR TWO

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Also if you are NOT running a sub. The Z9 has a bass out feature. Make sure that is set to. FRONT . AND make sure your bass level is not up to +6.