Will it add sound value?

[basil]

I am on the brink of setting-up a "home theatre" of sorts and want to get it right first time. I will basically be converting a suitable carpeted formal lounge into an A/V room which will include installing a 42" Panasonic Viera Plasma, Atlantic Technology 422 12" Sub and B&W Series 600 centre speakers and ceiling mounted surrounds (8") to add to my existing tower B&W CDM7 NT's driven by a Marantz SR 7200...... primarily for viewing/listening to music (DVD's and CD's)....Classical,Fusion Jazz, "light" Rock, and popular folk (Dire Straits,Beatles,CS&N, Queen,Supertramp, Bob James,David Sanborn etc).
I'm pretty settled on the TV, it's the sound side (Sub-woofer) that's needing conviction since I have been advised by another audiophile that I'd be wasting my money. He contends that the B&W's can hold sufficient base and deliver ample quality sound across the range, without the need for or the assistance of a sub and that, primarily for music listening/watching, a sub would introduce too much base at the expense of the overall quality/balance of the sound currently being delivered through 2 channels.
I know too little about such things to disagree with the audiophile although from what I've read and have gleaned from Audioholic threads and postings, the addition of a sub is the way to go.

Sure, I understand that the best thing to do is to have the muso's install the sub (and surrounds)on trial and then listen to it. I have already done the shop-studio thing and of course it sounds great in their ideally constructed situation. My home plans call for ceiling mounted surrounds, so I'm not going to be able to do a comparable "listen".
Any comments from informed member sources will be appreciated.

Basil

 

[ringbearer3791]

you bet

Basil,

I haven't personally heard the B&W's you're using in your system, but there are very few loudspeakers out there that will deliver clean, accurate bass down into the 20 Hz range. A quick look at the B&W speaker site suggests that your fronts have lost a lot of their power already at the 35-40 Hz range. Given that you're planning on using this system primarily for music and that your floorstanders do get down into reasonably low frequencies, you could certainly get by without a sub. That said, if you're going to spend the money on the system to get a really great listening experience, there is absolutely no substitute for a good subwoofer to really fill out the sound. Too much bass is really a question of the subwoofer volume but no amount of tweaking of the rest of your system is going to give you good clean low frequency sound without one.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[j_garcia]

Basil,

I haven't personally heard the B&W's you're using in your system, but there are very few loudspeakers out there that will deliver clean, accurate bass down into the 20 Hz range. A quick look at the B&W speaker site suggests that your fronts have lost a lot of their power already at the 35-40 Hz range. Given that you're planning on using this system primarily for music and that your floorstanders do get down into reasonably low frequencies, you could certainly get by without a sub. That said, if you're going to spend the money on the system to get a really great listening experience, there is absolutely no substitute for a good subwoofer to really fill out the sound. Too much bass is really a question of the subwoofer volume but no amount of tweaking of the rest of your system is going to give you good clean low frequency sound without one.

Hope this was helpful.

I agree with that 100%. For a music only system, I do think one could do fine without a sub. For home theater however, it would be an extremely rare condition where a sub would not be a benefit. It ultimately depends on what you are after, but I think once you have had a decent sub in your system, the benefits will be apparent. Not having a sub means your receiver must provide the power for all that low bass (which demands the most power), where with a powered sub, the sub's own amp handles that load itself.

 

[snickelfritz]

IMO, you should install a good subwoofer...

I have the B&W CDM9NT speakers, which are fairly similar to yours, and they go down fairly deep, but a subwoofer is mandatory in my listening room for balanced output throughout the bass range and true extension to 20hz.
The difference as measured using 1/3 octave warble tones and RS SPL meter with compensation curve applied, is very significant in terms of smoothness through the midbass and extension below 40hz.

Without the subwoofer, there is a very large valley (>10db) in the room response in the 50-60hz range and a fast rolloff below 40hz.
20hz output is virtually inaudible.
Bass instruments go missing in parts of their range and are lacking in subjective "purr".

With the subwoofer (Paradigm Servo-15) enabled and carefully calibrated, the response is almost perfectly smooth from 40hz to 100hz (+-1db variation along a 3db/octave clockwise slope (basically a shallow "house curve")

Response above 100hz perfectly tracks the native response of the B&Ws.
Response below 40hz peaks 3db at 30hz,(relative to 40hz and 20hz) and is the only significant departure from the overall curve.

The system does not sound "bass-heavy" or "subwoofery" at all, (most of the time, one would never guess that a 15" subwoofer is in the system)
Music with heavy bass content is very natural, detailed and solid without sounding artificially enhanced.
DVD and DBS low-bass sound effects emerge transparently and shudder the air in the room impressively. (at this point it becomes quite obvious that a large subwoofer is in the system)

A subtle feature of the overall sound with the subwoofer enabled, is that bass drums tend to be more tactile than audible.
ie: Even at fairly low volume levels, you can literally feel the drums, but there is relatively little aural perception of heavy "bass thumps", per se.

 

[basil]

adding sound value

Thanks for the useful advice. I'll let you know how it sounds when it's installed.

Regards

basil

 

[j_garcia]

"Subwoofery" I like that

 

[Warpdrv]

There is no substitute for a dedicated sub, or dual subs to smooth out the bass in a room..... and relieve your main speakers of the burden...
If you've never owned a good quality sub, you will be amazed what material you are missing when watching movies... enough stuff out there to scare the pants off of people if they take it that far with really higher quality subs can produce.

Very few speakers are competant enough to produce bass down to 20hz efficiently.... Couple questions....

What are you using for the receiver?

What is your room size?

What is your budget?

There are alot of good deals out there, and if we can get a little more info, we can help you try to narrow down some of those choices....

 

[j_garcia]

Of note too, the larger your room, the tougher it will be to get good bass performance without a sub, and even with a sub, a very large room could mean needing a more substantial sub.