Will Denon/Marantz finally provide Roon certification

[steveoatsky8789]

I have heard a number of rumors from other sites (Audio Science Review, AVS forum) that on the December 20th announcement, Massimo may finally provide Roon certification to Denon and Marantz receivers. Also of interest is that recently my Denon X4800h is show as Roon Ready, but uncertified. I never saw this before.

Does anyone else have any information about this?

 

[Eppie]

I have heard a number of rumors from other sites (Audio Science Review, AVS forum) that on the December 20th announcement, Massimo may finally provide Roon certification to Denon and Marantz receivers. Also of interest is that recently my Denon X4800h is show as Roon Ready, but uncertified. I never saw this before.

Does anyone else have any information about this?

Where did you see the Roon Ready notice? I downloaded the new X4800H firmware last night and what the firmware notice mentioned was the addition of Dirac Live Bass Control. I have not purchased the Dirac Live license yet but there is a 30% discount code 30BCDM23 for the Bass Control license.

Denon AVRs with HEOS are considered Roon Tested. What I gathered from the Roon forums is that HEOS supported AVRs only show up as generic Airplay devices. I imagine that it's like Chromecasting to Android devices. (I have yet to setup HEOS to try it out.) Would be nice if they add certification as generic devices do not use the RAAT protocol. I hope to investigate this further this week and see what else the new firmware added.

There is no mention of any changes to Roon support on the Latest HEOS app and firmware update available page although they did make updates to HEOS.

 

[steveoatsky8789]

If you have Roon, go to audio devices and look at your X4800h. Under "Roon Ready" it should list the x4800h, but it will be marked "Uncertified". This supposedly means that RAAT has been installed by the firmware, but it is awaiting Roon certification.

 

[Eppie]

If you have Roon, go to audio devices and look at your X4800h. Under "Roon Ready" it should list the x4800h, but it will be marked "Uncertified". This supposedly means that RAAT has been installed by the firmware, but it is awaiting Roon certification.

Interesting. The X4800H does show up in Roon as Roon Ready but the app will not let you add the AVR as it is uncertified. Certainly looks like the AVR will support Roon natively with certification.

I added the AVR as an Airplay device and you can stream to the X4800H via Roon. I believe this is supported via HEOS as when I stream music via Roon the display on the TV is the same as when the HEOS app is used and the HEOS app mimics the Roon Now Playing (although HEOS does not get playlist info from Roon). I was able to mess up the volume settings though. The Roon and HEOS phone apps don't communicate with each other and if you try and adjust the volume in HEOS after starting a Roon stream, the AVR gets confused. Closing the HEOS app and adjusting the volume in the Roon app fixed that. Not surpising as the apps were not designed to work together.

That is actually one of the nice things about using Airplay support with Roon and the AVR. You can control the volume with the app. When Chromecasting to my NVidia Shield via Roon I can not adjust the volume (only mute it). I did notice though that HEOS will only control the volume to the current volume level on the AVR, not higher. So if the volume on the AVR is set to 70% then HEOS will adjust from 0 to 70%. With Roon through Airplay I was able to adjust the volume fully but the control was not very fine at high volumes and I had to be carfeful not to adjust the slider too far approach max power.

 

[lovinthehd]

If I ever understood any advantage Roon brings....

 

[Eppie]

If I ever understood any advantage Roon brings....

I'll admit that the technical benefits are not necessarily audible. Their RAAT protocol is supposed to eliminate any jitter or timing issues with digital transports. It does offer wide hardware support though and great features.

• You can stream using your phone or PC or any Roon Ready device.
• You can simultaneously play different content in different zones or link zones together and play the same content on different zones, with no sync issues.
• You can transfer content from one zone to another on the fly.
• You can pass through content or resample to higher bit rates and apply various DSP functions like volume leveling and parametric EQ.
• It supports local files, a variety of streaming services and internet radio.
• End points can be anything that is Roon certified from a Raspberry Pi3 to PC/Mac or one of their own or 3rd party streamers if you don't want to setup things yourself. That includes Chromecast and Airplay enabled devices that don't have native Roon support. I can cast to my NVidia Shield and use Airplay for my AVR.
• End points with video can display album art, static lyrics or even karaoke lyircs if available and it's all configurable.
• Roon automatically plays the best version of a file. I have both FLAC and MP3 files. I play FLAC at home but maintain smaller MP3 files for my mobile and my car (which does not support FLAC). If Roon has both versions in its library, it will play the better quality file.
• They added the ARC phone app which lets you access your Roon library away from home.
• They have a large database of artist and album information that lets you explore other areas of music.
• Their genre matching is very good. You can choose one song or an album and then enable "Roon Radio" which will play similar material (like Apple's autoplay or match).

It's still my favorite interface with various search options. I can build playlists on the fly and if I don't like what Roon Radio wants to play, I can modify the playlist and it will adjust. The karaoke lyrics display in Chromecast as well if you configure a display but I wish that they had a native Roon client for the NVidia Shield, which does not support multi-channel audio via Chromecast. The Roon client for the Pi seems very stable. I added a DAC HAT to the Pi for analogue output and haven't touched it in months. It gets software updates from my Roon server on occasion but I have never had the need to reboot it.

It's expensive for a software solution though. I should have paid for the lifetime subscription when I first installed it. I wouldn't pay that much to run it on one device, but for multiple devices in a home I think there is value there.

 

[steveoatsky8789]

What I am hoping is that if the Denon gets Roon certified I will be able to play multichannel dsf files through my Denon, using Denon as a Roon endpoint. HEOS only supports 2 channel dsf. So, let's hope!!

 

[adk highlander]

I'll admit that the technical benefits are not necessarily audible. Their RAAT protocol is supposed to eliminate any jitter or timing issues with digital transports. It does offer wide hardware support though and great features.

• You can stream using your phone or PC or any Roon Ready device.
• You can simultaneously play different content in different zones or link zones together and play the same content on different zones, with no sync issues.
• You can transfer content from one zone to another on the fly.
• You can pass through content or resample to higher bit rates and apply various DSP functions like volume leveling and parametric EQ.
• It supports local files, a variety of streaming services and internet radio.
• End points can be anything that is Roon certified from a Raspberry Pi3 to PC/Mac or one of their own or 3rd party streamers if you don't want to setup things yourself. That includes Chromecast and Airplay enabled devices that don't have native Roon support. I can cast to my NVidia Shield and use Airplay for my AVR.
• End points with video can display album art, static lyrics or even karaoke lyircs if available and it's all configurable.
• Roon automatically plays the best version of a file. I have both FLAC and MP3 files. I play FLAC at home but maintain smaller MP3 files for my mobile and my car (which does not support FLAC). If Roon has both versions in its library, it will play the better quality file.
• They added the ARC phone app which lets you access your Roon library away from home.
• They have a large database of artist and album information that lets you explore other areas of music.
• Their genre matching is very good. You can choose one song or an album and then enable "Roon Radio" which will play similar material (like Apple's autoplay or match).

It's still my favorite interface with various search options. I can build playlists on the fly and if I don't like what Roon Radio wants to play, I can modify the playlist and it will adjust. The karaoke lyrics display in Chromecast as well if you configure a display but I wish that they had a native Roon client for the NVidia Shield, which does not support multi-channel audio via Chromecast. The Roon client for the Pi seems very stable. I added a DAC HAT to the Pi for analogue output and haven't touched it in months. It gets software updates from my Roon server on occasion but I have never had the need to reboot it.

It's expensive for a software solution though. I should have paid for the lifetime subscription when I first installed it. I wouldn't pay that much to run it on one device, but for multiple devices in a home I think there is value there.

I didn't know you were also a Roon user. I think I am now at 8 endpoints around the house of various forms. Obviously I prefer Roon native devices but it is nice to have Chromecast available. I've never used AirPlay but I do see that on my Denon 7200. Unfortunately it was just before HEOS so there will be no update for me.

 

[Eppie]

I didn't know you were also a Roon user. I think I am now at 8 endpoints around the house of various forms. Obviously I prefer Roon native devices but it is nice to have Chromecast available. I've never used AirPlay but I do see that on my Denon 7200. Unfortunately it was just before HEOS so there will be no update for me.

I have my files on a Windows PC but Plex on the Playstation 3 was pretty bad and I did not have a HTPC next to the AVR. The Raspberry Pi is relatively cheap, so I started with a Pi3 and Rii keyboard as the Pi3 has HDMI out which I connected to my AVR. That worked well with Roon and the linux client is very stable. The Pi3 lacks power to play YouTube videos, though, which is one reason I picked up the Shield Pro. The Shield has a much better Plex client but I still prefer Roon for music and use Plex for videos. The Pi3 got moved to an analogue system so I added a good quality DAC HAT and it sits, tucked away, doing its thing.

I've been hoping for a native Shield client from Roon but I don't think that's ever going to happen. At least the karaoke lyrics work with Chromecast but multi-channel is lacking and requires Kodi on the Shield. Yesterday was my first time trying the Denon using Roon and Airplay. That worked ok but volume control is rough and a little laggy.

 

[adk highlander]

I have my files on a Windows PC but Plex on the Playstation 3 was pretty bad and I did not have a HTPC next to the AVR. The Raspberry Pi is relatively cheap, so I started with a Pi3 and Rii keyboard as the Pi3 has HDMI out which I connected to my AVR. That worked well with Roon and the linux client is very stable. The Pi3 lacks power to play YouTube videos, though, which is one reason I picked up the Shield Pro. The Shield has a much better Plex client but I still prefer Roon for music and use Plex for videos. The Pi3 got moved to an analogue system so I added a good quality DAC HAT and it sits, tucked away, doing its thing.

I've been hoping for a native Shield client from Roon but I don't think that's ever going to happen. At least the karaoke lyrics work with Chromecast but multi-channel is lacking and requires Kodi on the Shield. Yesterday was my first time trying the Denon using Roon and Airplay. That worked ok but volume control is rough and a little laggy.

Nice. I used Vortexbox that used the squeezelite protocol for many years but it just died a slow death once logitech killed the squeeze devices. I had a movie server for a while with a popcornhour as the streamer and a huge RAID array for a few hundred blue rays. I have not turned it on in years. I doubt any of it works. All the streaming services cover most of the movie watching although discs sound much better still.

I just got my WiiM amp so hoping that gets certified like the other models soon.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'll admit that the technical benefits are not necessarily audible. Their RAAT protocol is supposed to eliminate any jitter or timing issues with digital transports. It does offer wide hardware support though and great features.

• You can stream using your phone or PC or any Roon Ready device.
• You can simultaneously play different content in different zones or link zones together and play the same content on different zones, with no sync issues.
• You can transfer content from one zone to another on the fly.
• You can pass through content or resample to higher bit rates and apply various DSP functions like volume leveling and parametric EQ.
• It supports local files, a variety of streaming services and internet radio.
• End points can be anything that is Roon certified from a Raspberry Pi3 to PC/Mac or one of their own or 3rd party streamers if you don't want to setup things yourself. That includes Chromecast and Airplay enabled devices that don't have native Roon support. I can cast to my NVidia Shield and use Airplay for my AVR.
• End points with video can display album art, static lyrics or even karaoke lyircs if available and it's all configurable.
• Roon automatically plays the best version of a file. I have both FLAC and MP3 files. I play FLAC at home but maintain smaller MP3 files for my mobile and my car (which does not support FLAC). If Roon has both versions in its library, it will play the better quality file.
• They added the ARC phone app which lets you access your Roon library away from home.
• They have a large database of artist and album information that lets you explore other areas of music.
• Their genre matching is very good. You can choose one song or an album and then enable "Roon Radio" which will play similar material (like Apple's autoplay or match).

It's still my favorite interface with various search options. I can build playlists on the fly and if I don't like what Roon Radio wants to play, I can modify the playlist and it will adjust. The karaoke lyrics display in Chromecast as well if you configure a display but I wish that they had a native Roon client for the NVidia Shield, which does not support multi-channel audio via Chromecast. The Roon client for the Pi seems very stable. I added a DAC HAT to the Pi for analogue output and haven't touched it in months. It gets software updates from my Roon server on occasion but I have never had the need to reboot it.

It's expensive for a software solution though. I should have paid for the lifetime subscription when I first installed it. I wouldn't pay that much to run it on one device, but for multiple devices in a home I think there is value there.

I think that's the best rundown I've seen on Roon so far! Thanks. There's equalization, too, isn't there? Still, not any advantage for me in my use with my gear. I can already do much of that, at least what I want to do, with my existing stuff without buying what I think is too high a price from Roon.

 

[adk highlander]

Just saw this over on the Roon forum:

We have heard back from Roon Labs that the temporary visibility of Marantz/Denon in the app under Roon Ready was due to development testing. This happens from time to time, and occasionally, it’s possible to even activate a device and get a brief taste of Roon Ready functionality. Aside from that, nothing has changed in regard to announcements, promises, and timelines for certification. It is not possible to state when a certification testing will be completed, or indeed whether a situation is reached where both parties (Roon Labs and their Partner) will conclude that testing will end and a device will not become Roon Ready.

 

[ban25]

What I am hoping is that if the Denon gets Roon certified I will be able to play multichannel dsf files through my Denon, using Denon as a Roon endpoint. HEOS only supports 2 channel dsf. So, let's hope!!

I would not get your hopes up too high. I have the Integra DRX-8.4, which is Roon Ready, and it does not support multi-channel content over the network. It streams up to 24-bit/192 kHz FLAC in stereo. Anything with more channels will get downmixed by Roon before being sent to the AVR.

I think the only way to get multi-channel (or DSD/DXD) content out of Roon is to use a Roon Bridge or Roon Core connected directly via HDMI. I really wish Roon had an Android TV app for the NVIDIA Shield TV Pro, because that would be a fantastic solution that could support multi-channel and even display album art. Typically, if I want to listen to multi-channel or Atmos music on my AVR, I use the Tidal app on the Shield.

 

[Spizz]

Actually the Eversolo DMP-A6 is the only unit AFAIK that can do Multi-Channel *Native DSD* via HDMI via Roon without converting to PCM. Exciting feature. It would be great if Denon/Marantz also get this functionality.

 

[MrBoat]

I got Roon to play with for a bit. Issue I was having was that when connecting the Topping DAC to USB on my PC, it was rendering my on board EQ inoperable. I am basically trying to see how awful the stock PC audio is, or isn't, once and for all, or if external DACs make any real difference, at least vs PC. Hard to tell otherwise, since the audiophools have also managed to inflict their fruity weirdness onto the DAC scene like everything else they go on about. The measurement heads are getting to be just as fruity, living in the realm of what to me seems to be otherwise, the inaudible depths of audio.

I didn't get a real chance to do a session with it yet, but for the price, it'd better be something life changing. I was looking into building a streamer outside of my PC either Raspberry Pi based or something from a used mini (something Linux based) PC just for kicks. Of course this leads down a whole other road fraught with the fruit loops too so. . .

 

[oniiz86]

I know it has already been unofficially confirmed that D+M AVRs will be "Roon Ready" earlier this month here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dirac-art-is-now-running-on-beta-fw-for-denon-xx800h-avrs.46616/page-16#post-1839302 but this latest German presentation of the Denon X6800H has D+M Europe's Technical Marketing Manager/Regional Trainer Roland Krüger confirming that it will be coming at around the 11:55 mark,

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, it's likely an improvement over HEOS in any case