Why the push for 7.1 capable receivers??

[3db]

Maybe I'm out of the loop on this one but I cannot understand why so many manufactures are now offering 7.1 Have any DVDs have been released in this format? I haven't seen any when checking out the rentals for the weekends. Come to think of it, I have yet to stumble across a 6.1 although I know, some of those exist.

 

[jaxvon]

I would think it's mostly marketing with the idea of future compatability. There is no other good reason that I know of, for the reasons you stated.

 

[Cygnus]

It's for future compatability, plus most receivers have 7CH/6CH Stereo sound modes, which splits a stereo signal into 7.1 or 6.1 channels, depending on your configuration.

 

[Mr. Lamb Fries]

Marketing.
Even though there isnt compatable media the manufacturer needs to offer the consumer the next best thing. If the companies offered only 5.1 receivers then people wouldnt upgrade. We already have 5.1. Not to say 7.1 doesnt have its benifits (dual room, extra speaker configurations, etc...) but most people would be satisfied with just 5.1. It works in reverse too. now that more and more people are placing 7.1 in their HT's, the request for compatable media will continue to grow. I am a pawn in this game. I just picked up a 7.1. I plan on using 5.1 for my HT and dual room with the extra channels. I am sure I will want to upgrade when the pricing of the "next best thing", 9.1, comes down to earth!

 

[patnshan]

Future?

I got 7.1 for future compatibility and for the extra two channels. I run 5.1 and plan to use the extra 2 channels for a set of outdoor speakers for my patio. That's it. My room isn't big enough for 7.1 anyway. Maybe when I get the basement done, I'll have room. Then I'll have to buy a 9.1

Pat

 

[Mr. Lamb Fries]

If your looking for Multizone compatability and its more than two zones check out
http://www.sonos.com/us/landing/all_lp2.htm?ovmkt=J8NG88H93Q11CMMBIAD5V9LV9C
Right now its expensive and a bunch of companies are doing this right now but soon it will be reasonable for someone looking to expand in this fashion.

 

[malvado78]

6.1 vs. 7.1

7.1, for right now, only takes a 6.1 signal and plays the center rear signal in 2 "center" rear speakers. The reason for this is supposedly better acoustic imaging. When you have one speaker directly behind you, your brain can may sometimes tell you those sounds are coming from infront of you (Making the center rear signal sound like it is coming from the center front speaker). By using two speakers and offsetting them from being directly behind you you have much better imaging and never get the confusion you may get from one speaker directly behind you. I read this is an article some where but I can't recall where right now or I would post it for all.

As for those who looking for "future compatibility." I don't really understand. Is this compatability meaning having the extra speaker because the receiver you buy right now, I assume, will only ever use the algorithms it currently has to decode the information from 6 surround channels then splitting the center rear into two speakers. Unless you can update these algorithms I don't believe you will ever be able to decode true 7.1 formats when they do come along.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Also there are 6.1 formatted DVD's they are called DTS ES and DDEX
The following is a link to a list of these types of DVD's
DTS ES and DD EX
There are currently no actual 7.1 format DVD's

 

[MDS]

The phenomenon whereby you perceive the sound from directly behind you to be coming from the front is known as 'back to front reversal'. It is a real and documented effect, even though the technical term for it doesn't sound all that impressive.

- 7.1 receivers are useful for multi-zone where you have 5.1 in one room and stereo in another. (As others have already mentioned).
- 7.1 can also be useful for creating a more enveloping sound. A 7.1 matrix decoder like PLIIx, can take 2, 5.1, or 6.1 channels and expand it to 7.1 channels. You get sounds behind you in the rear surrounds and that can sound more realistic than just 'surround' info coming from the side surrounds.
- Future compatibilty? Maybe to get consumers used to the idea of 7.1 channels so that if there ever is a discrete 7.1 channel format (none currently) we will all rush out to buy the real thing, but that will require new algorithms and decoders so current 7.1 receivers won't be able to utilize the new format - from that perspective, I don't think it can be argued that 7.1 receivers are future proof.

 

[Ohmage]

- Future compatibilty? Maybe to get consumers used to the idea of 7.1 channels so that if there ever is a discrete 7.1 channel format (none currently) we will all rush out to buy the real thing, but that will require new algorithms and decoders so current 7.1 receivers won't be able to utilize the new format - from that perspective, I don't think it can be argued that 7.1 receivers are future proof.

I agree. The same goes for receivers that claim to have firmware upgradability - there is no guarantee that the decoding chip(s) in those receivers will be compatible with any new discrete 7.1 channel information that may come along.

Considering the fact that the average household has difficulty with a 5.1 setup, let alone a 7.1 setup, I don't foresee any urgency with Dolby Laboratories to create a true 7.1 format. What I believe should be done, is to drastically improve the 5.1 experience by improving the information dedicated to the 2 surround speakers. I know that many of us appreciate the experience of a well-recorded stereo program, and if we can channel (no pun intended) the same depth of information, as we experience with stereo reproduction with 2 speakers, into the surround speakers of a 5.1 setup, then I am certain that most of us will be completely satisfied with a 5.1 setup.

Ohmage.

 

[patnshan]

7.1, for right now, only takes a 6.1 signal and plays the center rear signal in 2 "center" rear speakers. The reason for this is supposedly better acoustic imaging. When you have one speaker directly behind you, your brain can may sometimes tell you those sounds are coming from infront of you (Making the center rear signal sound like it is coming from the center front speaker). By using two speakers and offsetting them from being directly behind you you have much better imaging and never get the confusion you may get from one speaker directly behind you. I read this is an article some where but I can't recall where right now or I would post it for all.

As for those who looking for "future compatibility." I don't really understand. Is this compatability meaning having the extra speaker because the receiver you buy right now, I assume, will only ever use the algorithms it currently has to decode the information from 6 surround channels then splitting the center rear into two speakers. Unless you can update these algorithms I don't believe you will ever be able to decode true 7.1 formats when they do come along.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Also there are 6.1 formatted DVD's they are called DTS ES and DDEX
The following is a link to a list of these types of DVD's
DTS ES and DD EX
There are currently no actual 7.1 format DVD's

Many receivers have firmware upgrade capability. Also, 7.1 inputs (mine has) would likely make it possible to say, accept inputs from a HD DVD player 7.1 outs in the future. Am I right on that?

Pat

 

[tuuney]

An audio Rep from a local store told me that 6.1 set up is better than 7.1.
He added:"I will hear more sound from the 7.1 but then it sounds more like stereo instead of surround sound as I may want to hear".

Not sure his statement is right or wrong? any comment, please advise.

 

[Tempest]

Quote from Mordaunt-Short website:

'A 6.1 Mordaunt-Short Home Cinema is made possible by using an additional 304 Centre speaker to the rear of the Home Cinema set-up.'

I'm using this kind of setup at my place and it works quite well. If I had some Mordaunt-Short Avant 900 Series speakers, it would sound a lot better. Obviously, the setup in the attached picture may not be very practical The subwoofer looks lonely.

 

[Doug917]

I currently run a 9.2 setup, although I only have 7.2 channels active at any one time through the Yamaha 2500. I wish they would have put preouts for the presence channels on the mid-fi receivers they produce so you could run 9.2. I'm not shelling out the cash for the Z9 and am hoping they will come out with a pre/pro soon. I enjoy the added soundstage the extra speakers produce. I must admit, I would be very hesitant to go above 9.2 though; I can't imagine much more of a beneift of anything above this.

 

[MDS]

An audio Rep from a local store told me that 6.1 set up is better than 7.1.
He added:"I will hear more sound from the 7.1 but then it sounds more like stereo instead of surround sound as I may want to hear".

He may prefer 6.1 to 7.1 but it is certainly not better. It has problems - with back to front reversals being the most glaring. The whole point of 7.1 is STEREO surrounds so you can hear distinct left rear and right rear sounds rather than just one somewhat undefined blob of sound directly behind you.

I would bet he was using 7 channel stereo which simply copies the L to the L side surround and L rear surround, R to the R side surround and R rear surround, and sums the L+R to mono for the center. That would certainly sound like stereo because it is stereo.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Maybe I'm out of the loop on this one but I cannot understand why so many manufactures are now offering 7.1 Have any DVDs have been released in this format? I haven't seen any when checking out the rentals for the weekends. Come to think of it, I have yet to stumble across a 6.1 although I know, some of those exist.

7.1 is just two mono rear center speakers instead of one. This wirks well if your rear wall is long. It allows more people to be in the sweet spot with respect to the rear center ch.

 

[3db]

The only good reasons I've heard so far for 7.1

is the ability to use the two extra channels in a seperate zone. As far as futur capability goes, I don' think it warants the extra cost for 7.1. I say this because 7.1 receivers have been availbale for at least 2 years, if not 3. Yet, there has been no single release of 7.1 material. If you add in the fact that even 6.1 titles haven't increased in any noticeable numbers suggests that we may be rooked my the marketing guys to squeeeze out additional money out of our pockets. The other thing we don't know is that they just might skip over 7.1 and go directly to 9.1 making 7.1 already obsolete. This is just my gut feeling but I really think that 7.1 titles will never really appear and the that the extra storage information contained in the new blue-ray laser dvds and the like may actually go to 9.1 surround sound. I realize this is all speculation on my part.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I don't think a 1 room 9.1 system will ever make it into the residential market. There's simply not enough room for the speakers.

Denon's 7.1 stereo mode is excellent for entertaining. It splits the room up into left and right stereo with a wide soundstage, the in-phase component of the l/r channel is sent to the center channel, and solid bass from the sub. IMO, it's more natural sounding than DTS Neo 6-music or DDPLIIx-music.

 

[Ohmage]

is the ability to use the two extra channels in a seperate zone. As far as futur capability goes, I don' think it warants the extra cost for 7.1. I say this because 7.1 receivers have been availbale for at least 2 years, if not 3. Yet, there has been no single release of 7.1 material. If you add in the fact that even 6.1 titles haven't increased in any noticeable numbers suggests that we may be rooked my the marketing guys to squeeeze out additional money out of our pockets. The other thing we don't know is that they just might skip over 7.1 and go directly to 9.1 making 7.1 already obsolete. This is just my gut feeling but I really think that 7.1 titles will never really appear and the that the extra storage information contained in the new blue-ray laser dvds and the like may actually go to 9.1 surround sound. I realize this is all speculation on my part.

This is my guess: I think the current DVD format is perhaps a limitation to a true discrete 7.1 format, because of the extra information required for the 2 additional channels (plus a whole new algorithm). The current DVD's already have a number of audio setup options encoded to them, like the basic stereo surround, 5.1 Dolby Surround, and DTS. Now, if a true discrete 7.1 surround encoding is added to the DVD, in additional to the space required for the video, where does the other lesser surround modes end up? They'll be squeezed out of the DVD. Companies are not going to release DVD's with just a 7.1 surround option, because they'll lose money due to the lack of sales; the whole thing is business driven and tailored to the masses. Most homes cannot accomodate a 7.1 setup. The current 7.1 receivers was a marketing gimmick to generate more sales by their respective makers, and obviously was not supported by Dolby Laboratories or the movie companies that released the DVD's. Maker A released the first 7.1 receiver because it thought this would put it at an advantage sales wise, then every maker from B to Z followed suit.

The added capacity of the blue ray laser DVD's will make a true 7.1 discrete surround mode possible, because they can also accomodate the other surround formats on the same disc, along with other possible video enhancements. I think 9.1 is a stretch, although your input is enlightening. Blue ray will make 7.1 fly, rather than make it obsolete. My 98 cents worth.

Ohmage.

 

[malvado78]

That's if Blue Ray ever flies.

 

[3db]

interesting similar point of view

This is my guess: I think the current DVD format is perhaps a limitation to a true discrete 7.1 format, because of the extra information required for the 2 additional channels (plus a whole new algorithm). The current DVD's already have a number of audio setup options encoded to them, like the basic stereo surround, 5.1 Dolby Surround, and DTS. Now, if a true discrete 7.1 surround encoding is added to the DVD, in additional to the space required for the video, where does the other lesser surround modes end up? They'll be squeezed out of the DVD. Companies are not going to release DVD's with just a 7.1 surround option, because they'll lose money due to the lack of sales; the whole thing is business driven and tailored to the masses. Most homes cannot accomodate a 7.1 setup. The current 7.1 receivers was a marketing gimmick to generate more sales by their respective makers, and obviously was not supported by Dolby Laboratories or the movie companies that released the DVD's. Maker A released the first 7.1 receiver because it thought this would put it at an advantage sales wise, then every maker from B to Z followed suit.

So you really think its just a matter of current dvd format limitaitions that is preventing 7.1. They already have 6.1, You don't think they could "cram" in the last channel. I would definately give up on the two channel versions being a DVD manufacturer as more people can now more easily enter the surround sound realm than ever before.


The added capacity of the blue ray laser DVD's will make a true 7.1 discrete surround mode possible, because they can also accomodate the other surround formats on the same disc, along with other possible video enhancements. I think 9.1 is a stretch, although your input is enlightening. Blue ray will make 7.1 fly, rather than make it obsolete. My 98 cents worth.

Perhaps ..Like you say, I think that most people's listening environment cannot even support 7.1 ( ie rooms are just too small to effectively take advantage of this ) so maybe 9.1 is a stretch. Either way, I think that blue ray and the other technology out there will come out . What I'd like to know is this.. out of all the 7.1 maufacturers' out there, how many have invested in the blue-ray and competing techconologies.

The other thing I just thought of is this...Why are manufactures getting THX certification on their 7.1 revceivers when 7.1 isn't officially endorced by THX? Ooops..forgot.. the money scam thing again.. I still find all of this ironic ..

Ohmage.

see the italics for my response