Why old receiver sound lounder

[alisrael]

Hi,

I have a old Yamaha RV-1105 (5.1 channel rated @85w/channel), and recently I wanted to upgrade to a 7.1. After doing my research I narrowed it down to Yamaha RX-A800(95w/channel) or Onkyo TX-NR708 (105w/channel). I ended up buying the Onkyo, as it was much cheaper and voted the receiver of the year 2010. Hooked everything up and found that my old Yamaha sounded much louder than the Onkyo. I have to put the Onkyo @-20db (that is almost 65% of the full volume to really hear anything noticeable. However, my old Yamaha sounds so much better even @-40db (about 30% of the full volume). I cannot even raise it to -30db on my old Yamaha, as it becomes too loud. I have checked the sound of Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon in local A/V stores, and Onkyo does sound much louder (I know louder is not always better, but some effect sound better when loud). So the question is has something changed in the receivers to limit the output. Why does a 85w receiver sound louder than a 105w receiver.

Albert

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,

I have a old Yamaha RV-1105 (5.1 channel rated @85w/channel), and recently I wanted to upgrade to a 7.1. After doing my research I narrowed it down to Yamaha RX-A800(95w/channel) or Onkyo TX-NR708 (105w/channel). I ended up buying the Onkyo, as it was much cheaper and voted the receiver of the year 2010. Hooked everything up and found that my old Yamaha sounded much louder than the Onkyo. I have to put the Onkyo @-20db (that is almost 65% of the full volume to really hear anything noticeable. However, my old Yamaha sounds so much better even @-40db (about 30% of the full volume). I cannot even raise it to -30db on my old Yamaha, as it becomes too loud. I have checked the sound of Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon in local A/V stores, and Onkyo does sound much louder (I know louder is not always better, but some effect sound better when loud). So the question is has something changed in the receivers to limit the output. Why does a 85w receiver sound louder than a 105w receiver.

Albert

How do you have your speaker levels set in the speaker set up menu?

 

[alisrael]

My Yamaha is set with Large room. On the new Onkyo, I used the standard calibration (Odyssey calibration).

Albert

 

[Nestor]

Distortion and frequency response can have an effect. An amp driving into distortion will add harmonics to the sound, making it louder. Different eq settings will skew your perceptions as well.

The dB indications on the receivers are no different than the typical "0-10" settings of old. They won't give you a meaningful comparison. Unless of course, you're Nigel Tufnel.

 

[TLS Guy]

My Yamaha is set with Large room. On the new Onkyo, I used the standard calibration (Odyssey calibration).

Albert

That is your problem. You need to go into the menu and see what Audyssey did. It likely has made a mess of things. So post exactly what Audyssey did to your set up.

 

[sholling]

That is your problem. You need to go into the menu and see what Audyssey did. It likely has made a mess of things. So post exactly what Audyssey did to your set up.

This can and does happen in some rooms.

I read someplace that Audyssey sets zero at 85db at the microphone location. I don't know if that's true but it seems to be.

 

[ZeGhostbear]

I read someplace that Audyssey sets zero at 85db at the microphone location. I don't know if that's true but it seems to be.

By the way the OP is describing volume in percentages, I would guess he is not interpreting what he is seeing correctly (no offence).

Audyssey calibrates to a reference decibel level. My Onkyo's volume display is set to "relative" by default, so a display of -20dB would be 20 less than reference. Your model probably does the same. I can change this to "absolute" on my model, but I think the default makes more sense.

Direct comparisons of this number without taking other factors into account is almost meaningless, especially with automatic room correction in the picture. Here is an example. I used to turn my receiver to -20 for DVD and -15 for Blu-ray because I would experience listening fatigue during movies otherwise. I added a much more powerful external amp to the same receiver. At first you might think that I would now need to "turn it up less". But when you think about it, the calibration takes the changed equipment into account once you re-run it and balances everything back out when it works as intended. Now, on the same receiver, I turn the dial to -15 for DVD and -10 (or higher) for Blu-ray. Does this mean the new amplifier is less powerful? No. It probably means the distortion levels are now much lower as I now enjoy higher volumes more.

The only way you can really know whether something is wrong is to do your own room measurments, but I think the OP's system is probably fine.

 

[alisrael]

Thanks for the response. Yes, this is exactly what I had to do. I had to set the volume to -15db for blue-ray, and Cable and DVD @-20db. I was just curios and hence the posting. I did use both absolute and relative. I can probably accept the explanation on the effect of distortion on the volume. But with not much 7.1 content, and not seeing much of an improvement over my old receiver, I have returned the Onkyo back to the store. The only advantage I saw was with the HDMI switching, and upscaling. I can get a decent HDMI switch for $50 and I dont see a reason to waste $500 on a new receiver.

Thank you all for your response.

Albert