Why and when to use mini DSP?

[Sylar]

1. Why and when should one go for MiniDsp?
2. Is it really recommended? Costs 100$ which is huge...is the price worth it?

My setup:
PSB T6 towers. B5 surrounds, C5 center.
Marantz 7005 receiver.
Crown XLS 1500. 2 DIY subs with Infinity 1260.

 

[ReUpRo]

1. Why and when should one go for MiniDsp?

If you have to ask, it's not for you .

Seriously though, think of it as the crossover and EQ from the receiver, in a stand alone package. But, it is mostly manually set up and much more flexible than anything one finds in receivers and pre-pros. Consequently, when set up correctly, it is also much more effective than any auto setup.

 

[fuzz092888]

You also need a mic and software to get the most out of it. Like REW and a USB mic at minimum.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you have to ask, it's not for you .

Seriously though, think of it as the crossover and EQ from the receiver, in a stand alone package. But, it is mostly manually set up and much more flexible than anything one finds in receivers and pre-pros. Consequently, when set up correctly, it is also much more effective than any auto setup.

The key here is WHEN SET UP CORRECTLY.

How does one go about setting it up correctly. Certainly not by ear.

And to be fair, has it actually been proven to be more effective than Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ or just hypothesized?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You also need a mic and software to get the most out of it. Like REW and a USB mic at minimum.

I think you would utterly have buy a good mic and software because it would be virtually impossible to manual EQ by ear.

 

[fuzz092888]

I think you would utterly have buy a good mic and software because it would be virtually impossible to manual EQ by ear.

In don't disagree. A little knowledge about what you're doing helps as well.

Ideally a good external soundcard and something like an earthworks mic would be darn near perfect. However a USB mic and REW could still get you pretty far with a little know how.

 

[ReUpRo]

And to be fair, has it actually been proven to be more effective than Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ or just hypothesized?

You just cannot put the pompoms down can ya . I kid I kid...

I'm not aware of any unbiased comparison between a current gen top of line auto Eq and deftly implemented MiniDSP setup. I will concede that it will be close for a good room, with good speakers in good locations. I speculate that in the hands of a competent tweaker, MiniDSP will always produce better results, especially, if the room or speaker placement lean further away from optimal.

Ideally a good external soundcard and something like an earthworks mic would be darn near perfect. However a USB mic and REW could still get you pretty far with a little know how.

The noise floor in most places is higher than 40dB. So, unless someone is living in an isolated bunker or have speakers/sub that cannot reproduce 100dB test tones, the USB mic has the range to create valid RT60 measurements.

With ASIO drivers, feeding test tones via digital means and a USB Mic, REW should keep all but the most extreme of Audioholics completely satisfied.

One exception would be if one is creating distortion measurements. In this case the noise floor of USB mics renders them unsuitable.

 

[fuzz092888]

The noise floor in most places is higher than 40dB. So, unless someone is living in an isolated bunker or have speakers/sub that cannot reproduce 100dB test tones, the USB mic has the range to create valid RT60 measurements.

With ASIO drivers, feeding test tones via digital means and a USB Mic, REW should keep all but the most extreme of Audioholics completely satisfied.

One exception would be if one is creating distortion measurements. In this case the noise floor of USB mics renders them unsuitable.

I'm also talking about accuracy with the measurements, consistency in the quality of the mics, along with longevity. I have a couple USB mics with the provided files, but my Behringer ECM (made before the consistency issues with the model) with calibration file from CSS consistently outperforms them. This includes basic subwoofer measurements that a newbie would be doing to EQ their sub or take basic measurements. Now, the differences aren't always night and day, but they differ enough, often enough, for me to use the behringer the majority of the time.

I also said ideally the earthworks and an external sound card would be used, but that a USB mic would be fine for most

 

[Sylar]

Not sure if i've understood this right.

You also need a mic and software to get the most out of it. Like REW and a USB mic at minimum.

I read in a latter post by fuzz mentioning a sound cad. This got me confused. Why need a soundcard?
As I understand, the miniDSP is used for the problematic lower bass region...hence EQ.
So this is how its usually connected...MiniDsp's input comes from subwoofer pre out of the receiver and MiniDsp's output goes to the subwoofer amp's input.

Seriously though, think of it as the crossover and EQ from the receiver, in a stand alone package. But, it is mostly manually set up and much more flexible than anything one finds in receivers and pre-pros. Consequently, when set up correctly, it is also much more effective than any auto setup.

Why crossover?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Sylar, you have dual subs - running them without proper EQ is far from ideal. To get much better bass response in your you need to EQ them ether by Audyssey subEQ or with REW/Usb Microphone and MiniDSP

Doc Geddes suggests to use Behringer DCX2496 for DSP, but you could achieve same results with MiniDSP

 

[crossedover]

Not sure if i've understood this right.


I read in a latter post by fuzz mentioning a sound cad. This got me confused. Why need a soundcard?
As I understand, the miniDSP is used for the problematic lower bass region...hence EQ.
So this is how its usually connected...MiniDsp's input comes from subwoofer pre out of the receiver and MiniDsp's output goes to the subwoofer amp's input.


Why crossover?

Auto-EQ tuning with REW | MiniDSP you need a sound card between microphone and laptop.

 

[fuzz092888]

Not sure if i've understood this right.


I read in a latter post by fuzz mentioning a sound cad. This got me confused. Why need a soundcard?
As I understand, the miniDSP is used for the problematic lower bass region...hence EQ.
So this is how its usually connected...MiniDsp's input comes from subwoofer pre out of the receiver and MiniDsp's output goes to the subwoofer amp's input.


Why crossover?

Some stock computer sound cards are alright with after you calibrate them, but that's for the measurement side. If the stock sound card can't output the frequency extremes (my own rolls off pretty hard at the top and bottom) then you're going to have a hard time getting accurate equalization for your subs. Which is why an outboard sound card is sometimes recommended.

The miniDSP can be used to EQ the lower bass region (i.e. subs), but you still need measurements of what your subs are doing before you can EQ, unless you are just doing it by ear, which isn't recommended. Without frequency measurements you're shooting blind and are wasting the capabilities of the miniDSP.

As for a crossover, the miniDSP can actually be used as a standalone external, active crossover if you built your own pair of speakers. It can also be used if you wanted to run a stereo (L/R) signal into it and then cross that stereo signal over to stereo subs. Essentially making a 3-way out of a pair of bookshelves.

 

[jinjuku]

The key here is WHEN SET UP CORRECTLY.

How does one go about setting it up correctly. Certainly not by ear.

And to be fair, has it actually been proven to be more effective than Audyssey XT32 + dual Sub EQ or just hypothesized?

I have certainly used outboard DSP (built into amp) that let me integrate multiple subs where XT32 was leaving some performance on the floor.

 

[jinjuku]

2. Is it really recommended? Costs 100$ which is huge...is the price worth it?

If $100 is a huge cost then you will want to pass on it. Because you will need a measurement system also (like everyone has been saying). REW is one suggestion, but requires some effort and a hodgepodge of equipment.

I use a Dayton Omni-Mic V2.

 

[Sylar]

Auto-EQ tuning with REW | MiniDSP you need a sound card between microphone and laptop.

on board not recommended? currently i dont use a sound card. I have connected on board optical out to receiver with HDMI

 

[crossedover]

see fuzz's post above

 

[Sylar]

If $100 is a huge cost then you will want to pass on it.

I meant from the perspective of...how much will i gain? I already have setup audyssey in the receiver.

I am technically capable of understanding to a decent extent on how things work....so definitely not a noob
My friend is travelling and he can pick this up on way back to India. I didn't have the time to do the research since i need to let them know by today if it needs to be ordered.

So to get this running, here is what I need.
1. Mini DSP. 2x4 Mini DSP (125$)
2. A measuring mike. Any particular suggestions for a decent one? (100$)
3. Measuring software. Like REW. REW is freeware.
4. Soundcard. How about Onboard mike input?

Anything else i would require?
5. How about the Plugin? Why this?

 

[ReUpRo]

If your computer has HDMI, you can install the ASIO drivers. This allows REW to send digital signal over HDMI, addressing each of 7.1 channels independently, thereby eliminating the need for a sound card.

 

[jinjuku]

I meant from the perspective of...how much will i gain? I already have setup audyssey in the receiver.

That's the $25,000 question. If curious get the Mic and Measurement system first. The issues with onboard audio are:

1. You need full duplex operation. That is the card can output a signal and record a signal all at the same time.
2. Often mainboard microphones are not linear. They have too much roll off

The people behind REW aren't making a list of requirements to drain your wallet. They are making a list of requirements because they are really smart guys and know what it takes to get the job done.

If you get the Mic and Measurement system first, and your sub response is killer then no need for a Mini-DSP.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I meant from the perspective of...how much will i gain? I already have setup audyssey in the receiver.

No one will know how much you could gain, unless you measure your room bass response now and see where it is now.
Guessing is useless.