T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
Curious if your Mac is cable connected to your system and if you have tried the Qobuz app or any other services on it.

I’m thinking about a Wiim amp for the office to save space. Most don’t have anything but good things to say about their Wiim devices.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
yes u get exactly what is sent. But the timing is off (jitter) and this is not noticeable with computer data, however it is noticeable with audio/video and that’s why u get pauses in an action scene or the sound pauses or doesn’t sound right.
Sorry but that is just marketing rubbish. I've read plenty of articles on jitter and how it is supposed to affect audio, but data transmission does not work that way. All devices, whether it is a PC, tablet, mobile phone, DAC or AVR, all use buffering. An audio data stream is not constant, whether it occurs over a network or internally within a device. Network audio streams in particular have to contend with other data streams over the local network, so the audio arrives at the intended device in packets, or in bursts. Those data packets are buffered in memory and the device then uses the data as required. As long as the memory buffer is not emptied, the device can consume the audio stream at a constant rate, so there is no jitter. Audio streams have a low bit rate compared to what a network can handle so drop outs do not occur unless there is problem with the source.

You are correct in that an Eversolo with an SSD card will never experience drop outs because the data is consumed internally but buffer under-runs on a local network are rare enough to be ignored. My Pi3B handles high-res streams from my Roon server over WiFi without any issues and that's with my son gaming and my wife watching Netflix at the same time.
 
F

Funnychap

Enthusiast
Sorry but that is just marketing rubbish. I've read plenty of articles on jitter and how it is supposed to affect audio, but data transmission does not work that way. All devices, whether it is a PC, tablet, mobile phone, DAC or AVR, all use buffering. An audio data stream is not constant, whether it occurs over a network or internally within a device. Network audio streams in particular have to contend with other data streams over the local network, so the audio arrives at the intended device in packets, or in bursts. Those data packets are buffered in memory and the device then uses the data as required. As long as the memory buffer is not emptied, the device can consume the audio stream at a constant rate, so there is no jitter. Audio streams have a low bit rate compared to what a network can handle so drop outs do not occur unless there is problem with the source.

You are correct in that an Eversolo with an SSD card will never experience drop outs because the data is consumed internally but buffer under-runs on a local network are rare enough to be ignored. My Pi3B handles high-res streams from my Roon server over WiFi without any issues and that's with my son gaming and my wife watching Netflix at the same time.
if that works for u, congrats u saved money. But you don't know what you might be missing.

But again you’re talking about computer data, not audio/visual which is highly affected by jitter that I do notice.

for me, the best anti jitter is a ddc by Denafrips iris 12th , which also improved my sound quality.

But getting back to the original question, a standalone streamer has less noise than using a pi or general computer, better software, better DAC.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Curious if your Mac is cable connected to your system and if you have tried the Qobuz app or any other services on it.
My iMac is wirelessly connected and yes I have WiiM / Qobuz set up and running just fine on it.

FWIW iMac, WiiM and router all in the same room.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
yes u get exactly what is sent. But the timing is off (jitter) and this is not noticeable with computer data, however it is noticeable with audio/video and that’s why u get pauses in an action scene or the sound pauses or doesn’t sound right.
Jitter isn't possible over ethernet. It was a short-lived issue on early sync USB implementation, but we moved to a-sync USB decades ago.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
My iMac is wirelessly connected and yes I have WiiM / Qobuz set up and running just fine on it.

FWIW iMac, WiiM and router all in the same room.
I was curious if you had downloaded the Qobuz desktop app for the Mac and used Airplay or Chromecast to cast it to your system and compared it to the WiiM’s wired connection.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
if that works for u, congrats u saved money. But you don't know what you might be missing.

But again you’re talking about computer data, not audio/visual which is highly affected by jitter that I do notice.

for me, the best anti jitter is a ddc by Denafrips iris 12th , which also improved my sound quality.

But getting back to the original question, a standalone streamer has less noise than using a pi or general computer, better software, better DAC.
When audio/video is streamed, it is computer data! :D It's been said before, but bits are bits. Whether the data stream is computer data or a digitized audio/video file, it's treated the same on the network. I would argue that the most important piece of hardware is the DAC chip because it is responsible for the actual digital to analogue conversion.

Few people ever use the DACs in PCs (or the Pi). PCs are notorious for bad audio although some will use the 1/8" audio jack for lack of any other options. Most will use USB or HDMI out to leave the signal in the digital domain and let an external DAC or AVR do the digital to analogue conversion. With the Pi I can use the HDMI out to connect to my AVR and let the AVR do all of the processing. I also have a high quality DAC HAT installed on the Pi which allows me to convert locally and feed analogue to a receiver or amp.

You have to bear in mind, though, that if you are using any kind of processing with an AVR or integrated amp or pre/pro that any analogue signal is going to get converted to digital, get processed, and then converted back to analogue. That makes any fancy external DAC rather superfluous as the internal DAC in the AVR/amp does the final digital to audio conversion. Might as well leave the signal in the digital domain and avoid converting back and forth multiple times.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
I'm not sure if those who have spent an exorbitant amount of money on redundant devices are trying to convince others or themselves that it was worth it.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I was curious if you had downloaded the Qobuz desktop app for the Mac and used Airplay or Chromecast to cast it to your system and compared it to the WiiM’s wired connection.
nothing wired, all wireless
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Another question for the WiiM users, do you set your streamer volume to max and make your preferred volume adj from your receiver, pre-amp ?
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
Another question for the WiiM users, do you set your streamer volume to max and make your preferred volume adj from your receiver, pre-amp ?
Yes, I always set them to max volume or fixed and then use my integrated for volume control.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I'm growing more comfortable with streaming each day. But one thing I'm not comfortable with is working off my cell phone, all thumbs !

So, I'm planning a tablet purchase. What are everyone's preferences 9, 10 or 11 inch ? Android would be cheaper but I'm not adverse to going Mac if justified ?
 
Bobby Bass

Bobby Bass

Audioholic General
I'm growing more comfortable with streaming each day. But one thing I'm not comfortable with is working off my cell phone, all thumbs !

So, I'm planning a tablet purchase. What are everyone's preferences 9, 10 or 11 inch ? Android would be cheaper but I'm not adverse to going Mac if justified ?
You’re hooked just like I was and still am. I use an iPad. The biggest one they make. I can see the apps with my old guy eyes and work the icons with my fat guy fingers. The kids were all Apple and now so am I With the iPad and an iPhone. This old guy is learning new tricks. Enjoy!
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I'm growing more comfortable with streaming each day. But one thing I'm not comfortable with is working off my cell phone, all thumbs !

So, I'm planning a tablet purchase. What are everyone's preferences 9, 10 or 11 inch ? Android would be cheaper but I'm not adverse to going Mac if justified ?
I use a couple of fire 11 Max tablets running stock android firmware for remote controls and streaming, if you wanna invest the time, if not id probably get a refurb Mac, if I was buying.
 
F

Funnychap

Enthusiast
I'm growing more comfortable with streaming each day. But one thing I'm not comfortable with is working off my cell phone, all thumbs !

So, I'm planning a tablet purchase. What are everyone's preferences 9, 10 or 11 inch ? Android would be cheaper but I'm not adverse to going Mac if justified ?
We had 2 Samsung Android tablets that never charged properly and dies after a year.

Whereas we have 3 Apple iPads about 10.7 in. They charge well and lasts. Plus we get facetime video, and easily mirror to the Apple 4kTV.

Get an iPad 10.9 in screen (10th generation). The 9th generation has 10.2 in screen and while that does not seem like much smaller, the font is a lot smaller to me when I use the browser.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Gents, thank you one and all for your input ! Cyber Monday is right around the corner !
 
F

Funnychap

Enthusiast
Gents, thank you one and all for your input ! Cyber Monday is right around the corner !
also the Apple ipad 10th gen works with the 2nd gen Apple pencil (college kids love it for notetaking) which charges wirelessly while it magnetically attaches to the ipad.
 
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