Whole house setup

[TP143]

Hi everyone,

I am planning on installing a full house system using in-ceiling speakers spread throughout 4-5 rooms, and one pair outside (12 speakers total). So far I have the speakers only and want to understand what else is needed, and if there are alternatives to each, to complete the system. A few points:

1. I would like to be able to control each rooms on/off/volume seperately, whether this is from one central location or a control knob of some sort in each room makes no difference to me.

2. I need to incorporate a tuner. I would assume purchasing a tuner and hooking it up directly to the amp or receiver would be recommended rather than finding an all-in-one unit.

3. I would prefer to be able to listen to the television through the speakers. I do not plan on watching movies though, and so I wouldn't need the Dolby Digital/etc functionality built in.

4. Related to question #1, I have heard these multi-room systems can be controlled via an ipad, which I have. Is this true?

Thanks!!!

 

[BMXTRIX]

You have several options as to what you are doing and quite a range.

Controllable multi-zone, multi-source preamps are the best way to go if your budget allows for it. You can hook up multiple sources, typically between 4 and 8 sources, then have multiple rooms which typically have a keypad in each room. The keypad is wired to the controller with CAT-5 typically.

Then, from the keypad you pick what you want to listen to (source 1-6), and have volume control. Typically a next/previous preset/track button is available as well.

Cheaper is just running all the zones at the same time and using a speaker selector with volume control or putting a volume control in each room.

It is a LOT less money, but you pretty much have manual control in each room exclusively and they will all be listening to the same source at the same time. No listening to the game outside while the wife listens to music inside (or vice-versa).

Sonos offers some options for Android/iOs control with multiple units controlling multiple zones and I believe you can feed aux sources into the Sonos players. It's definitely a different type of solution, but to control it you really must be using a smart device of some sort instead of a simple wall controller.

 

[ImcLoud]

One of these for each room ($120)
NEW JAMO AT-A1 IN WALL 11 POSITIONS ROTARY VOLUME CONTROL WHITE | eBay

One of these ($38)
New Multi-Multiple-Room Stereo Audio Speaker(Six/6-Channel)Selector Switch-Black | eBay

One of these ($158)
Dayton Audio APA150 150W Power Amplifier 300-812

Then you will need a few cheap things like 6 lv boxes for the volume controls {home depot $2 ea}, some in wall speaker wire, depending how far your runs are from where you are going to put your devices, probably get away with monoprices 14-2 and 14-4 cable..(about $100 after wire, staples, boxes, ect)
The 14-4 cable is going to run from your amplifier to your speaker selector, then more 14-4 runs from the selector to each volume control, then you run 14-2 to each speaker from its volume control... Its very easy...
Cost you under $450, plus if you need an avr tat is going to be around $200 for one with a zone 2 function


Now for your source control, do you have a home theater receiver now? If not get one with a zone 2 output. That will run to you dayton amps rca's... http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKHTRC260/Onkyo-HT-RC260-7.2-channel-3D-Ready-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

 

[TP143]

In the suggest above, why are there two amps? Also, given the 12 speakers, do I need a 12 channel amp or a combination of amp totaling at least 12 channels?

Thanks!

 

[ImcLoud]

In the suggest above, why are there two amps? Also, given the 12 speakers, do I need a 12 channel amp or a combination of amp totaling at least 12 channels?

Thanks!

You are only using the first amp as a preamp to organize your sources, you will plug in your tv optical, or all your hdmi's into the avr, then you will plug the avr's zone 2 into the 2 channel amplifier. Then the amplifier will have its 2 channels ran to the monoprice selector box, this will split them 2 channels into 12 channels and match the impedance to {depending on your speakers} between 4-6 ohms... So you only need a 2 channel amp... Now you can use the avr to run a home theater system if you like or just leave it as a preamp for the multi room system it doesnt matter , it is a lot cheaper than buying a preamp with no amplifier intergrated amp... And you dont want to use the internal amp of an avr for your multi room system because they arent very powerful and they dont like going down to 4 ohms... you will run into reliability issues...

I can post some pics of my system if you need visual aid... I have tried the multi channel amp way, I spent thousands on Rotel 12ch amps, and they broke down more than they worked... The system is going to take that amps 150watts and split it up to all the speakers while making sure you dont drop below 4 ohms... It will be plenty loud enough too.. I would be surprised if I ever put mine up to 15 watts per speaker set...

 

[BMXTRIX]

The downside with the above path, which is a very common one that is used, is that you must go back to the room with the receiver to turn it on. You also will have the same source playing in each room at the same time. You may turn off audio using the speaker selector at the central location for each room, but you will need to go into each room to adjust volume for the source that is currently playing in that room.

There is nothing wrong with that setup at all, but when working for a large residential installer, I found that people often didn't use the system when it was setup this way. It just was a bit complex to use. Just not convenient enough.

Sonos really seems like a good solution. Not cheap, but not insanely pricey. You would need several zone players if you want to break up your audio sources, or you can run it into a single amp, and you may be able to just turn it on/off from your smart phone.

Not sure why the above poster had issues with his multi-channel amplifiers. I've used mine for over half a decade now without any failures whatsoever, so you can go this route with a good bit of confidence as long as you aren't trying to stuff the amp into a closet which is not well ventilated. Sonance, Speakercraft, and Niles all make excellent multi-channel amps. But, realistically, if you aren't going to provide separate audio to each zone, or you don't need to really crank them up, you don't need that much separated power.

At the end of the day, what is your goal? How convenient do you want this to be? How much volume do you want in the various locations? How much flexibility do you want for all of this? I've installed systems about every way possible, and the way you want to use it will always be one of the biggest factors in how things are setup.

 

[ImcLoud]

We looked into the more complex systems, but their cost just didn't make sense to us, we only use it when we have parties or when we are cleaning... As far as convenience, my system runs through my home theater, so All I have to do is hit the power/zone2 button on the processor and turn the ipod on... Then I only have speakers in the kitchen dining room and upstairs loft {then a few zones outside, we have 4 porches, so the vol controls are by each door}, so if you are going to want the speakers on in the room you are in, you have to walk by the vol control so its not a huge deal to click it up a little... then down when you leave that area...

Another problem with the more complex systems besides having lots of parts that are prone to breaking {in my experience, this may not be the norm, but when I had the more complex system it was a nightmare}, being 10 times the cost, harder to install and run, is they get outdated. With the basic system there is nothing to get out dated.. A customer of mine {I build houses} bought a high end nutone system, about 2 years later the main panel died and they didn't have a replacement, and couldn't fix it, I don't remember the entire situation, but I remember it costing around $1500 and they had to have painting and plaster done because the new unit was a different size...

The basic system works well for us, its super easy to start up and very reliable... Also if anything breaks your not calling the electrician or alarm guy, its either a wire, vol contrl or speaker... Not some ecm module tucked behind some panel somewhere..