Who Builds What for Whom?

R

rsachs

Enthusiast
Every so often I see comments regarding various amps and pros marketed by one company being in fact designed and or built by another, or having a common core board etc. Examples seem to be Parasound, Sherbourne, Sunfire etc. I know that ATI does contract manufacturing for many of the name brands on the market, and that the BAT has done design work as well. And then there's "East West" which seems to do a lot of contract manufacturing as well.

It would be a great resource if we could collect that information in a single place on the Audioholics site, perhaps by <company, model, designer, manufacturer>. This would certainly be useful to prospective purchasers.

Just having folks reply with what equivalents they know of would be good start.

Thanks,
 
I don't know if we'll ever compile it, but we've certainly ticked people off by mentioning things like that in our reviews... We even had one company flat out lie to our faces about having designed their own amplifiers (when an engineer form the source company told us this was the case and we could see it for ourselves in the review sample...) Most manufacturers think that if they change the chassis or replace a couple components they are free from being compared to another company that uses the same platform.

So be it... It's not evil and sometimes it results in a very inexpensive consumer product that is as good as another model marketed to higher end installations.
 
A

audiofox

Full Audioholic
It's interesting that the video display folks don't seem to be as bothered by this issue as the audio component folks. It is common knowledge that is easily uncovered in a Google search that there are only a few original mfrs for both LCD and plasma panels, but the same info on power amps (which is a much simpler technology, IMHO) is much harder to come by (maybe the relative simplicity is the reason...). I did ask these questions of Outlaw when I was considering one of their power amps, and they seemed to be okay with the knowledge that they were remarketing another companies' designs, but they seem to be an exception to the rule.
 
kingchorizo

kingchorizo

Enthusiast
From my understanding Sherwood Newcastle actually manufactures/builds over 75% of all high end components and receivers out on the market today and then the big name companies brand their name on the receivers. I have some data to back this up but have to dig it up and post it here.
I have a friend that owns a Home Theater business here locally and one of their sales rep for Sherwood showed specific brand names, board layouts and other manufacturing info on all the components that they build for for the high-end market. If memory serves me correctly, I want to say they do them for Yamaha, NAD, Pioneer, Marantz, Krell, Denon, Arcam, H/K, Boston Acoustics, Rotel are all made by Sherwood etc..
I know it sounds nuts, but I have some proof. I will hit up my buddy again for this information. Now don't get the R&D mixed up, I am strictly reffering about the manufacturing portion.
To be continued...
 
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R

rsachs

Enthusiast
Sherwood is busy

That would be a very impressive list. I would be surprised if it they do all that work. I could understand NAD and Boston, but not Denon/Marantz, HK, or Krell. ATI does a lot of contract manufacturing as well (as told to me by one of their sales team), but I cant remember specifically.

Look forward to your info.
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
rsachs said:
That would be a very impressive list. I would be surprised if it they do all that work. I could understand NAD and Boston, but not Denon/Marantz, HK, or Krell. ATI does a lot of contract manufacturing as well (as told to me by one of their sales team), but I cant remember specifically.

Look forward to your info.
Yes me also , very interesting .
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
kingchorizo said:
From my understanding Sherwood Newcastle actually manufactures/builds over 75% of all high end components and receivers out on the market today and then the big name companies brand their name on the receivers. I have some data to back this up but have to dig it up and post it here.
I have a friend that owns a Home Theater business here locally and one of their sales rep for Sherwood showed specific brand names, board layouts and other manufacturing info on all the components that they build for for the high-end market. If memory serves me correctly, I want to say they do them for Yamaha, NAD, Pioneer, Marantz, Krell, Denon, Arcam, H/K, Boston Acoustics, Rotel are all made by Sherwood etc..
I know it sounds nuts, but I have some proof. I will hit up my buddy again for this information. Now don't get the R&D mixed up, I am strictly reffering about the manufacturing portion.
To be continued...
Krell huh? I own a Krell amp and pre, I've never seen another amp that looks like a Krell on the inside, not even a Levinson. Please let us know when you get info it sounds interesting.
 
kingchorizo

kingchorizo

Enthusiast
Ok, I just got off the phone with my friend that owns the Home Theatre shop and he is trying to get a hold of his sales rep from Sherwood. I should get an answer of all the Brand names that they actually manufacture for. He also noted that if you look at Sherwood's site they also do claim and indicate that they build them.

Here is what I found so far from their website:
...."Not only is the Sherwood brand synonymous with high performance audio worldwide, but it is an industry secret that Sherwood is the actual manufacturer of nearly one-third of the world's high performance receivers. Many of the products we build are available with brand names which may be better known than our own."

More info here that I obtained from one of "dealer only brochures" :
Sherwood Newcastle



A true diamond in the rough. In the fiercely competitive and rapidly evolving field of consumer electronics, where companies shift production sites from one low-cost country to another, Sherwood Newcastle is a leading light, and international symbol of unsurpassed quality, and one of the few companies to manufacture all the products bearing its name. The company's philosophy is that of an enduring one: Design audio gear that offers only the highest levels of performance and make it yourself



From quality perspective, there are two things that stand out about this company only the audio video insiders are aware of. First, Sherwood Newcastle is the OEM choice of leading brand names in the world. So don't be surprised to find that esoteric brand receiver that you bought was in fact made by Sherwood Newcastle under its world renowned quality control. Second, Instead of running production runs of products that will become obsolete in a year or two, Sherwood Newcastle continues to support its customers through upgrades to its existing lines. This is why Sherwood Newcastle has become the choice of receiver for the people 'who know' home theater market. Why buy something new every year, when Sherwood Newcastle continue to upgrade to new technology?

Don't let the low price tag of Sherwood Newcastle fool you, they are one of the world best!


-----------------------------------
Other great information..read on.


An original equipment manufacturer, OEM, is a company that builds products or components that are used in products sold by another company. Sherwood claims that they are the manufacturer of "nearly one third of the world's high performance receivers". I've heard brands like Adcom, SAE, Kenwood, Marantz, Philips, Yamaha, Denon, Harman Kardon, and Krell. Harmon Kardon no longer uses Etronics. The real numbers of OEMs are a secret. This is understandable since the high-end A/V world is full of brands that are little more than their name on someone else's product for a lot more money.

One Sherwood OEM customer that isn't a secret is Outlaw Audio. They're a refreshingly open company that is frank about the fact they outsource the manufacture of all their products. Their 990 pre/pro is based on my P-965 and the Outlaw website not only says this, but outlines what they feel they've added to the product with their version. In this case the Outlaw direct sales model means their version is actually sold for less. (But I bought my P-965 used)

So, Sherwood's philosophy is still true today: "Design audio gear that offers only the highest levels of performance and make it yourself". Some people online are confused about the relationship and say Sherwood buys from Etronics (Sherwood IS Etronics). Or they say Sherwood buys from competing OEM Eastech of Taiwan (probably just mixing up Etronics and Eastech). And as a final note, apparently the Rotel development group is staffed by several ex-Inkel engineers and is also in Korea.
 
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Guiria

Guiria

Senior Audioholic
This is very interesting but I'm not surprised. I've been to China a few times in the industrial area of Dong Guan Province and have found (in my own field) that one factory will manufacture products for several brand names, and even though the products are manufactured at the same place each product is built specifically to the customers specs. I found that a close competitor of ours was also at the same factory and yet I never saw their technologies in our products and visa versa with theirs (since we'd go find their products out in the field). Just my 2 cents.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Sherwood may assemble the products, but it doesn't make their Newcastle line a better value than the others they put together. Denon or Krell may give them specs to build the product, and like any engineering firm they have to abide by those specs. That's typical in any industry.

If you take their latest and greatest R-965 AVR, it retails for $1999. This AVR doesn't offer HDMI/DVI interfaces, and only boasts a 120x7 spec - very similar to your mid line Denon 3800 series which runs about $800 less, but with more digital inputs and three zones compared to only two.

The R965 does have a very impresive power supply as well as huge heat sinks if you've ever check out the guts.

I've also read the Boston Acoustics 7120 is a twin to the R-965. Those units were popular at Onecall awhile back and have been selling on Ebay for under $700.

Outlaw Audio would be a great buy for the new warranty and price.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Rotel Receiver-



Sherwood Receiver-


I feel there is a connection here.:D
 
P

p38

Enthusiast
I first picked up the Sherwood P965 to run with my Carver M500's and soon swapped out the Carvers for a Rotel RB1090 and 1095, and the change was dramatic. Yeah the pre/pro is only around a grand or so, but is does the job better then some pre/pro that are twice the cost. I could not justify getting the Rotel 1068 when the P965 work just as well if not better. Ive heard the same talk going around about Sherwoods fingers being into other gear, I would'nt doubt it, their company is huge, although I dont believe they manufacture for as many as stated above. Although as stated they probutly do make certain parts under contract. Rotel, was a new bit of information for me.
 
F

f0am

Audioholic
Not to disagree with this, but the only thing i see in common with the two receiver's pictures is the heat sinks.

My poor rotel has connections to korea ::sniff:: On the plus side, it does everything I could ask of it and sounds good to me :)

Please keep updating this post with any other information you find, facinating thread!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
f0am said:
Not to disagree with this, but the only thing i see in common with the two receiver's pictures is the heat sinks.

My poor rotel has connections to korea ::sniff:: On the plus side, it does everything I could ask of it and sounds good to me :)

Please keep updating this post with any other information you find, facinating thread!
I am sure that Rotel, if they outsource, makes some different specs than what Sherwood has. I would say the power supplies are also similar.
 
M

MichaelJHuman

Audioholic
Odd location for the heat sinks from my experience.

Rotel amp looks to have more caps in the PSU.

Rotel has a fairly complex contruction. The placement of their boards is especially interesting. The Sherwood simply mounts them vertically.
 
F

f0am

Audioholic
MichaelJHuman said:
Odd location for the heat sinks from my experience.

Rotel amp looks to have more caps in the PSU.

Rotel has a fairly complex contruction. The placement of their boards is especially interesting. The Sherwood simply mounts them vertically.
I kind of liked the verticle mounting of the boards... Looks easyer to work with for repairs, plus the heat isnt rising from one board to another in that setup.
The Rotel's caps do look to be the same size but theres 4 of them.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
f0am said:
I kind of liked the verticle mounting of the boards... Looks easyer to work with for repairs, plus the heat isnt rising from one board to another in that setup.
The Rotel's caps do look to be the same size but theres 4 of them.
Rotel, from what I have seen, uses layers of boards on most of their stuff. Maybe it is more space efficient.
 

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