Where is the home theater market heading?

[Kosta]

Due to the pandemic I had to delay the purchase of a receiver unit (namely the Denon 4700h) but I was Ok with that because I thought to myself "what's the worst that can happen, the prices will either stay the same or be cheaper in anticipation to newer models since last time Denon upgraded their 3-4000 series was over two years ago".

Not only the price didn't stay the same but a couple weeks ago skyrocketed and now cost 300 euro more. Not only that, the hope of new models being released went out of the window after I learned about sound united being sold to a..... medical company....

Now my dilemma is, do I buy the overpriced unit to avoid another price increase or wait for things to cool off and buy it then even if it costs 100 bucks more than before. I know I am asking for someone to foresee the future in this case but many of you have contacts and are way better informed market-wise than me so I wanted to ask If someone has any idea about where the receiver market is heading so you can help me with my decision.

Thank you in advance

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

Well, the mass market seems to be going towards wireless small devices like soundbars.

But the enthusiast market will still have what you're looking for, it will just cost more as components go up in cost. Get what you want when you want it. If you wait, sure, another product cycle may release, but this never ends. Instead focus on what you need and just get it. Don't get stuck in analysis paralysis. You can't get the time back. Don't expect the market to cool off any time soon. Even if it did, don't expect things to be in stock, ever again, like they used to be.

Very best,

 

[ryanosaur]

I've been eagerly anticipating an upgrade, "soon." But that may push into next year. My advice has been consistent: WAIT and be patient.
Yamaha still hasn't updated their gear from last year to actually work as advertised, for example.
Sound United took last year off. Unfortunately, there has been little knowledge shared about whether they will release this year as anticipated based on their hiatus last year.
Simple fact is, pandemic aside, there are still chip shortages to contend with and labor and shipping problems persist.
...Among a burgeoning war in Eastern Europe.

Will it get better? Hopefully. This year? Maybe(?).

If you cannot wait, the existing x700 Denon product has been solid and functional. While not at the highest level of HDMI 2.1, it does work... so buying your 4700 wouldn't be the worst choice...
Or buy something smaller as a placeholder to get you through perhaps the next year and have on hand for a second system (bedroom?) or backup down the road.

Denon and Marantz brands are too valuable... I do not expect them to go anywhere. However, I do think Denon and Marantz eat themselves to a certain extent as they are largely the same machines with a very slightly different wrapper... It may be a good thing that the parity between these brands gets addressed and some greater delineation put into play.

 

[highfigh]

Due to the pandemic I had to delay the purchase of a receiver unit (namely the Denon 4700h) but I was Ok with that because I thought to myself "what's the worst that can happen, the prices will either stay the same or be cheaper in anticipation to newer models since last time Denon upgraded their 3-4000 series was over two years ago".

Not only the price didn't stay the same but a couple weeks ago skyrocketed and now cost 300 euro more. Not only that, the hope of new models being released went out of the window after I learned about sound united being sold to a..... medical company....

Now my dilemma is, do I buy the overpriced unit to avoid another price increase or wait for things to cool off and buy it then even if it costs 100 bucks more than before. I know I am asking for someone to foresee the future in this case but many of you have contacts and are way better informed market-wise than me so I wanted to ask If someone has any idea about where the receiver market is heading so you can help me with my decision.

Thank you in advance

China shut down, most other countries reduced manufacturing of mass market goods- were you not aware of this? Cargo ships are waiting to reach the docks in US ports- I don't know where you are, but you might look into the situation.

 

[Kosta]

But the enthusiast market will still have what you're looking for, it will just cost more as components go up in cost. Get what you want when you want it. If you wait, sure, another product cycle may release, but this never ends. Instead focus on what you need and just get it. Don't get stuck in analysis paralysis. You can't get the time back. Don't expect the market to cool off any time soon. Even if it did, don't expect things to be in stock, ever again, like they used to be.

I know exactly what you mean about the never ending release cycle. In my case, I am not hunting for the newest, cutting edge technology. The only reason I wait for new models is to get a discount on the old ones. I just want to get informed so I don't get ripped off. For example buy the receiver at it's highest price out of fear for further price increases and after a month or two watch the prices drop just because I was not aware of something about the market.

I've been eagerly anticipating an upgrade, "soon." But that may push into next year. My advice has been consistent: WAIT and be patient.
Yamaha still hasn't updated their gear from last year to actually work as advertised, for example.
Sound United took last year off. Unfortunately, there has been little knowledge shared about whether they will release this year as anticipated based on their hiatus last year.
Simple fact is, pandemic aside, there are still chip shortages to contend with and labor and shipping problems persist.
...Among a burgeoning war in Eastern Europe.

I have actually been waiting for this moment for 2 years since I was busy building the home theater space and the pandemic didn't help speed things up In the beginning of the year the pandemic was almost over so I thought things would go back to normal, product prices too, in a couple months. I was happy to hear that companies were taking steps to combat chip shortages and this year things were suppose to get better... Then... War.... We just can't catch a break, can we....

China shut down, most other countries reduced manufacturing of mass market goods- were you not aware of this? Cargo ships are waiting to reach the docks in US ports- I don't know where you are, but you might look into the situation.

I was aware of the chip shortages and after a 100 euro increase in receiver prices a couple months ago I thought that was it. I never thought there would be an extra 300 euro price hike out of the blue because there are usually indications before the price of a product will increase



.

 

[Benni777]

Yeah, this market sucks honestly. I am in the same boat, could have bought an AVR pre-covid at a reasonable price but didnt have all the scratch at that time. Now that I have the money the prices all went up so back on the saving train again. Not to mention the availability or lack there of.

 

[highfigh]

I know exactly what you mean about the never ending release cycle. In my case, I am not hunting for the newest, cutting edge technology. The only reason I wait for new models is to get a discount on the old ones. I just want to get informed so I don't get ripped off. For example buy the receiver at it's highest price out of fear for further price increases and after a month or two watch the prices drop just because I was not aware of something about the market.

I was aware of the chip shortages and after a 100 euro increase in receiver prices a couple months ago I thought that was it. I never thought there would be an extra 300 euro price hike out of the blue because there are usually indications before the price of a product will increase.

Where are you buying your equipment? If you're getting it online, I would recommend using a local source. If you have no local sources, it's going to be a rough road.

When I ask "What do you have in AVRs?", I usually add "or, is this just a way to make you laugh?". Only the largest distributors have any decent amount of inventory and even being one of the largest doesn't guarantee anything. When CD players or some other new thing was so popular that the manufacturers couldn't keep up with the demand, were told that they were 'allocating stock'- now, they just say it's back-ordered. Communication is terrible and it seems that many who had worked for manufacturers & distributors are gone. Trying to get technical info from some companies is almost impossible.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think $100 or $200 more is relatively insignificant to the overall prices of these units (X4700 = $2,100).

If your old AVR lacks the features you WANT, then buy it now. Life is too short, especially with this COVID plus Russia situation.

If you already have an AVR that works great and has all the features you want, but you just have an itch to upgrade like many of us , then wait another year.

 

[Kosta]

Where are you buying your equipment? If you're getting it online, I would recommend using a local source. If you have no local sources, it's going to be a rough road.

When I ask "What do you have in AVRs?", I usually add "or, is this just a way to make you laugh?". Only the largest distributors have any decent amount of inventory and even being one of the largest doesn't guarantee anything. When CD players or some other new thing was so popular that the manufacturers couldn't keep up with the demand, were told that they were 'allocating stock'- now, they just say it's back-ordered. Communication is terrible and it seems that many who had worked for manufacturers & distributors are gone. Trying to get technical info from some companies is almost impossible.

I was always keeping an eye on local online sources in case of a sudden discount (insert laugh here) but unless something like that happened I was planning to buy it from a Hi-fi store. I called them today and they explained the price situation and told me that they expect another 6% increase in the next orders. They have some stock so even if the price increases further I will still be able to get one with the old (still high) price and they ll inform me if their stock starts running out so I guess that will give me some extra time.

When I asked him about a cheaper option such as the 3700h he immediately said "Nope, there is no stock and no information whether there will be any stock any time soon"

Yeah, this market sucks honestly. I am in the same boat, could have bought an AVR pre-covid at a reasonable price but didnt have all the scratch at that time. Now that I have the money the prices all went up so back on the saving train again. Not to mention the availability or lack there of.

Where is the hug emoji when you need it... I hope we catch a break soon...

I think $100 or $200 more is relatively insignificant to the overall prices of these units (X4700 = $2,100).

If your old AVR lacks the features you WANT, then buy it now. Life is too short, especially with this COVID plus Russia situation.

If you already have an AVR that works great and has all the features you want, but you just have an itch to upgrade like many of us , then wait another year.

This is gonna be my first AVR, otherwise I would not care that much about waiting. I get what you are saying, paying a couple hundred bucks more for an already expensive piece of equipment doesn't sound that bad, but I am currently buying a whole home theater system full of overpriced equipment so those couple hundred bucks keep piling up. The problem is that the AVRs were the only ones whose price skyrocketed instead of a slow increase...

 

[SithZedi]

For what it's worth. Consider buying a 2 to 3 old preowned AVR on ebay or similar with a good return policy. It's a pain if you get a dud but you can send it back to the seller within 30 days given the return policy with the seller paying shipping. You run "most" of the same risk purchasing new from a retailer and the inventory is higher.

So test the hell out of it for 20 days or flip it back. Just make sure the item description says it is in perfect working condition before you bid or buy and it has the essential features you need.

 

[Kosta]

For what it's worth. Consider buying a 2 to 3 old preowned AVR on ebay or similar with a good return policy. It's a pain if you get a dud but you can send it back to the seller within 30 days given the return policy with the seller paying shipping. You run "most" of the same risk purchasing new from a retailer and the inventory is higher.

So test the hell out of it for 20 days or flip it back. Just make sure the item description says it is in perfect working condition before you bid or buy and it has the essential features you need.

I am willing to get even a used receiver at this point but the problem with older models is that they don't support 4K 120Hz which will make them a bottleneck in my system.

For now I posted listings on local websites that deal with used equipment asking for a used receiver or even a processor. If I am lucky something will come up, but that's only if someone really needs the money. I doubt anyone would sell a relatively new future-proof receiver such as the 4700H for any other reason.

 

[SithZedi]

I am willing to get even a used receiver at this point but the problem with older models is that they don't support 4K 120Hz which will make them a bottleneck in my system.

For now I posted listings on local websites that deal with used equipment asking for a used receiver or even a processor. If I am lucky something will come up, but that's only if someone really needs the money. I doubt anyone would sell a relatively new future-proof receiver such as the 4700H for any other reason.

Understand. Just FYI. I have bought from these guys before and they are good on returns.

Denon AVR-X4700H 9.2-Channel 8K AV Receiver with 3D Audio for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Denon AVR-X4700H 9.2-Channel 8K AV Receiver with 3D Audio at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Wardog555]

Is 4k120hz that important? You can get the previous model with earc and use that to send audio from console/pc through the tv and to aav receiver. It's what I do myself.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am willing to get even a used receiver at this point but the problem with older models is that they don't support 4K 120Hz which will make them a bottleneck in my system.

For now I posted listings on local websites that deal with used equipment asking for a used receiver or even a processor. If I am lucky something will come up, but that's only if someone really needs the money. I doubt anyone would sell a relatively new future-proof receiver such as the 4700H for any other reason.

So you're primarily a gamer if 120/4k is a bottleneck issue?

 

[TLS Guy]

I know exactly what you mean about the never ending release cycle. In my case, I am not hunting for the newest, cutting edge technology. The only reason I wait for new models is to get a discount on the old ones. I just want to get informed so I don't get ripped off. For example buy the receiver at it's highest price out of fear for further price increases and after a month or two watch the prices drop just because I was not aware of something about the market.



I have actually been waiting for this moment for 2 years since I was busy building the home theater space and the pandemic didn't help speed things up In the beginning of the year the pandemic was almost over so I thought things would go back to normal, product prices too, in a couple months. I was happy to hear that companies were taking steps to combat chip shortages and this year things were suppose to get better... Then... War.... We just can't catch a break, can we....




I was aware of the chip shortages and after a 100 euro increase in receiver prices a couple months ago I thought that was it. I never thought there would be an extra 300 euro price hike out of the blue because there are usually indications before the price of a product will increase



.

You are right, we are now heading fast into a war time economy. With this new and dangerous war, following a pandemic hopefully on the wane, but even that uncertain.

So we are in for an economy that is going to see a shrinking market for luxury goods for sometime, and that may well be 10 years or more.

In wartime economies luxury goods become scarce and expensive. This is because of supply shortages and inflationary pressures. At the moment I see a reinforcing negative feedback loop developing.

I doubt there is going to be much new product for sometime.

If this is your first theater experience and you already have made expenditures, then I would buy the best unit that you can afford, now. Things are not going to improve in the short to medium turn, and very possibly the long term.

So, even now more than ever, go for quality, install it professionally with maximum protection and take care of it, as replacements may become next to impossible to obtain in the near future.

The above being said, if you possibly can go separates. I give this advice more strongly then ever. I do think AVPs are more reliable. They just are, as the commonest failures in AVRs are the output stages of the power amps, and also power supplies as they are under more stress. Don't buy multichannel amps. Get two channel rack mounted pro amps and make a professional installation. In an AVR one output transistor blowing and causing DC offset shuts your whole system down. If you buy a multichannel power amp, one blown output stage and the lot sit idle. So keep to two channel amps.

If an AVP goes down you do have some workaround options if needs be. If you use two channel amps, your whole system is not going to be dead in the water.

You have to allow for the fact that failures can happen. So in the times of scarcity I see lasting for a significant length of time, you want to avoid critical choke points from failure as far as you can. An AVR is now a critical failure risk with possible no options for getting out of trouble for some time.

Unfortunately we now are in very uncertain times, much more akin to 1939 at any time since 1945. There is no doubt in my mind about that. So now you have to act more prudently than ever. That means more sensible cautious planning than in recent years to all aspects of our lives.

 

[Kosta]

Understand. Just FYI. I have bought from these guys before and they are good on returns.

They do not ship to my country

Is 4k120hz that important? You can get the previous model with earc and use that to send audio from console/pc through the tv and to aav receiver. It's what I do myself.

That can work? So that would mean that since I ll be getting a C2 Oled with 4 beautiful HDMI 2.1 ports I can simply connect everything to the tv and simply send the audio from the TV to the receiver via e-arc!

So you're primarily a gamer if 120/4k is a bottleneck issue?

Not primarily for gaming. the main usage will be music and movies. I also need the new model for the ability to shut down the amps and use it only as a pre amp, I thought I mentioned this in my post but I forgot after all.

The above being said, if you possibly can go separates. I give this advice more strongly then ever. I do think AVPs are more reliable. They just are, as the commonest failures in AVRs are the output stages of the power amps, and also power supplies as they are under more stress. Don't buy multichannel amps. Get two channel rack mounted pro amps and make a professional installation. In an AVR one output transistor blowing and causing DC offset shuts your whole system down. If you buy a multichannel power amp, one blown output stage and the lot sit idle. So keep to two channel amps.

The good thing about my system is that it's fully active so It will be used in pre-amp mode from day one. I have also installed an anti-surge protector in my electrical distribution board and I will connect everything to a servo power stabilizer. I ve always been afraid of power fluctuations and what they can do to my devices and I am not taking any chances.

About the processor, the cheapest one I can buy at the moment is the marantz which in my country went up by 600 euros!!!! The new price is 2800€ which is almost twice the price of a 4700H so by saving the extra $$$ I can re-buy the 4700h in the future if it breaks and only pay a little bit more extra. For it's original price I would have seriously considered it for its balanced outputs which are usefull in my case.

 

[Benni777]

You are right, we are now heading fast into a war time economy. With this new and dangerous war, following a pandemic hopefully on the wane, but even that uncertain.

So we are in for an economy that is going to see a shrinking market for luxury goods for sometime, and that may well be 10 years or more.

In wartime economies luxury goods become scarce and expensive. This is because of supply shortages and inflationary pressures. At the moment I see a reinforcing negative feedback loop developing.

I doubt there is going to be much new product for sometime.

If this is your first theater experience and you already have made expenditures, then I would buy the best unit that you can afford, now. Things are not going to improve in the short to medium turn, and very possibly the long term.

So, even now more than ever, go for quality, install it professionally with maximum protection and take care of it, as replacements may become next to impossible to obtain in the near future.

The above being said, if you possibly can go separates. I give this advice more strongly then ever. I do think AVPs are more reliable. They just are, as the commonest failures in AVRs are the output stages of the power amps, and also power supplies as they are under more stress. Don't buy multichannel amps. Get two channel rack mounted pro amps and make a professional installation. In an AVR one output transistor blowing and causing DC offset shuts your whole system down. If you buy a multichannel power amp, one blown output stage and the lot sit idle. So keep to two channel amps.

If an AVP goes down you do have some workaround options if needs be. If you use two channel amps, your whole system is not going to be dead in the water.

You have to allow for the fact that failures can happen. So in the times of scarcity I see lasting for a significant length of time, you want to avoid critical choke points from failure as far as you can. An AVR is now a critical failure risk with possible no options for getting out of trouble for some time.

Unfortunately we now are in very uncertain times, much more akin to 1939 at any time since 1945. There is no doubt in my mind about that. So now you have to act more prudently than ever. That means more sensible cautious planning than in recent years to all aspects of our lives.

Agreed, Times are certainly looking crazy and I doubt its getting any better any time soon. I may just scrap any future unnecessary purchases for this very fact. Sucks because I have all these plans...

Such is life.

 

[TLS Guy]

They do not ship to my country



That can work? So that would mean that since I ll be getting a C2 Oled with 4 beautiful HDMI 2.1 ports I can simply connect everything to the tv and simply send the audio from the TV to the receiver via e-arc!



Not primarily for gaming. the main usage will be music and movies. I also need the new model for the ability to shut down the amps and use it only as a pre amp, I thought I mentioned this in my post but I forgot after all.



The good thing about my system is that it's fully active so It will be used in pre-amp mode from day one. I have also installed an anti-surge protector in my electrical distribution board and I will connect everything to a servo power stabilizer. I ve always been afraid of power fluctuations and what they can do to my devices and I am not taking any chances.

About the processor, the cheapest one I can buy at the moment is the marantz which in my country went up by 600 euros!!!! The new price is 2800€ which is almost twice the price of a 4700H so by saving the extra $$$ I can re-buy the 4700h in the future if it breaks and only pay a little bit more extra. For it's original price I would have seriously considered it for its balanced outputs which are usefull in my case.

If your speakers are all active, then you will need an AVP, as you will need balanced connections to your speakers. Those runs will be far too long for RCA connections.

 

[lovinthehd]

They do not ship to my country



That can work? So that would mean that since I ll be getting a C2 Oled with 4 beautiful HDMI 2.1 ports I can simply connect everything to the tv and simply send the audio from the TV to the receiver via e-arc!



Not primarily for gaming. the main usage will be music and movies. I also need the new model for the ability to shut down the amps and use it only as a pre amp, I thought I mentioned this in my post but I forgot after all.



The good thing about my system is that it's fully active so It will be used in pre-amp mode from day one. I have also installed an anti-surge protector in my electrical distribution board and I will connect everything to a servo power stabilizer. I ve always been afraid of power fluctuations and what they can do to my devices and I am not taking any chances.

About the processor, the cheapest one I can buy at the moment is the marantz which in my country went up by 600 euros!!!! The new price is 2800€ which is almost twice the price of a 4700H so by saving the extra $$$ I can re-buy the 4700h in the future if it breaks and only pay a little bit more extra. For it's original price I would have seriously considered it for its balanced outputs which are usefull in my case.

Well if main use is music and movies there's no 120/4k content. Don't overthink the pre-amp mode feature on an avr, altho depends on your amp's sensitivity level somewhat. I wouldn't rely on ARC/eARC myself, YMMV.

 

[Wardog555]

Your not going to need 4k120hz for movies and music. Only two uhd blu-ray disks are at 4k60hz while all the rest of them are at 4k24hz.

But yes to your question in response to me regarding earc as I use it myself for pc