What would dedicated AMP do for me? Is it all a nonsense?

[bizmord]

Hi guys,


Here is my system that I have as of right now.


A/V Receiver - Denon AVR 4311ci
L/R - Ascend Sierra-1 NrT
Center - Ascend Sierra-1 NrT
Surrounds - Ascend HTM-200
Sub - Rythmik F12


Note .... apologies if I offend anyone with my title of the post. Just wanted to have a grabber.


I'll start by saying that I am happy with the sound I have right now.
I also have a 4 month old and these days ... I am not playing anything loud like I used to. I keep it below -16db (sad face)




Anyway ... for a long time I've been hearing how great it is to add a dedicated amp for even the front (L,R,C) speakers. All great stuff about Emotiva XPA-3, etc... So for someone in my situation with 50% regular TV watching, 30% Movies and 20% Music .... do I really need an AMP??? What sound improvement will I notice?


If you think that an amp is a good investment ... isn't it a great idea to go buy a 3-6 year old amp off of Ebay that costs 50% less these days as most of amps do the same thing?


thank you.
any feedback is appreciated.

 

[fuzz092888]

If you're not sending the receiver into clipping there's no reason you would need an amp.

 

[j_garcia]

What he said ^.

/end thread.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi guys,


Here is my system that I have as of right now.


A/V Receiver - Denon AVR 4311ci
L/R - Ascend Sierra-1 NrT
Center - Ascend Sierra-1 NrT
Surrounds - Ascend HTM-200
Sub - Rythmik F12


Note .... apologies if I offend anyone with my title of the post. Just wanted to have a grabber.


I'll start by saying that I am happy with the sound I have right now.
I also have a 4 month old and these days ... I am not playing anything loud like I used to. I keep it below -16db (sad face)




Anyway ... for a long time I've been hearing how great it is to add a dedicated amp for even the front (L,R,C) speakers. All great stuff about Emotiva XPA-3, etc... So for someone in my situation with 50% regular TV watching, 30% Movies and 20% Music .... do I really need an AMP??? What sound improvement will I notice?


If you think that an amp is a good investment ... isn't it a great idea to go buy a 3-6 year old amp off of Ebay that costs 50% less these days as most of amps do the same thing?


thank you.
any feedback is appreciated.

You are happy with your sound, so your point is?

 

[bizmord]

You are happy with your sound, so your point is?

I guess I want to spend some money?

 

[Pyrrho]

I guess I want to spend some money?

If you are bothered with too much money, you can always send it to me, and then you will no longer be troubled by it.

If you want to improve your sound, save up and buy better speakers (including subwoofer). Or, in your case, you could just add a second subwoofer of the same type you currently have, which would be an economical improvement (assuming, of course, that you set it up right).

Another thing to consider is a bigger, better TV. You see, there are plenty of ways to spend money, and some of them will actually give you an improvement in picture or sound. If you are determined to spend more money, I suggest spending it in a way that will make a noticeable improvement.

 

[ImcLoud]

I think if you are not playing loud and your avr is doing the job there is no point in an amp, although they look cool , maybe upgrade your sub, then at least you can sell yours, maybe dual subs if you are really ambitious. Or maybe look into the new sierra 2's them seem to be an upgrade over the ones..

 

[3db]

No point in tossing out your money on an amp if you never push the Denon into clipping. If its sound good to you, leave it be.

 

[RichB]

No point in tossing out your money on an amp if you never push the Denon into clipping. If its sound good to you, leave it be.

If it aint broke

However, I agree with the analysis that amps are clipping far more often than we realize. Clipping can reduce the amplitude of the clipped frequency and the amp will sail along.
It seems that many of us can tolerate significant distortion.

You can do a SPL analysis and estimate where clipping may occur.
Other than that, how can a user reliably determine if an amp is clipping peaks?

- Rich

 

[j_garcia]

If it aint broke

However, I agree with the analysis that amps are clipping far more often than we realize. Clipping can reduce the amplitude of the clipped frequency and the amp will sail along.
It seems that many of us can tolerate significant distortion.

You can do a SPL analysis and estimate where clipping may occur.
Other than that, how can a user reliably determine if an amp is clipping peaks?

- Rich

If it clips to the point where you DO hear it, then it is a problem IMO. Sure, many systems clip and it isn't immediately audible, so then does it matter at that point? Probably not. The question was will an amp improve the sound. If clipping isn't heard currently then the answer is an amp will offer no benefit.

 

[bizmord]

I think if you are not playing loud and your avr is doing the job there is no point in an amp, although they look cool , maybe upgrade your sub, then at least you can sell yours, maybe dual subs if you are really ambitious. Or maybe look into the new sierra 2's them seem to be an upgrade over the ones..

what's wrong with my Sub? I thought my Sub-woofer is probably the strongest link in my entire system.

 

[j_garcia]

Nothing wrong with that sub IMO. If it has sufficient output for your listening needs, it is a good sub. Adding a second one would just add more of a good thing LOL

 

[RichB]

If it clips to the point where you DO hear it, then it is a problem IMO. Sure, many systems clip and it isn't immediately audible, so then does it matter at that point? Probably not. The question was will an amp improve the sound. If clipping isn't heard currently then the answer is an amp will offer no benefit.

If clipping limits aplitude first, then you cannot hear what is not produced.
So I think if you hear clipping, then compression set in long before that.

My experience with driving AVR's hard is they start to sound flat and less dynamic.
I never pushed them into gross distortion.

However, if you are not pushing the AVR amp and you like the sound. You're done

- Rich

 

[3db]

what's wrong with my Sub? I thought my Sub-woofer is probably the strongest link in my entire system.

There is nothing wrong with your sub. He's just a got a hate on for Rythmik for some reason or another.

 

[3db]

If it aint broke

However, I agree with the analysis that amps are clipping far more often than we realize. Clipping can reduce the amplitude of the clipped frequency and the amp will sail along.
It seems that many of us can tolerate significant distortion.

You can do a SPL analysis and estimate where clipping may occur.
Other than that, how can a user reliably determine if an amp is clipping peaks?

- Rich

Rich, if the speakers aren't being harmed and their is no audable indication of clipping, would you spend the money on an amp that only buys you a theoretical advantage over an actual advantage?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, chances are you won't need any external amp.

It would have been a different story if your speakers are mostly 4 ohms, sensitivity 85dB/2.83v/m, distance of 5m, SPL max of 110dB, listen to 7Ch Stereo DSP mode in full range.

But I can see YOUR future. You will buy an amp anyway.

Heck I might even buy an amp for my AVR3312 now. You never know.

 

[RichB]

Rich, if the speakers aren't being harmed and their is no audible indication of clipping, would you spend the money on an amp that only buys you a theoretical advantage over an actual advantage?

Because I already spent the money on the speakers for their response, accuracy, and freedom from compression.
They are not that easy to drive 84 DB at 1 watt that dip below 4 ohms. Occasionally, I like high SPL's.

IMO, everyone should have an amp that delivers sufficient, clean power, to provide the SPL's desired. To do that, it will have to be capable of properly drive your speaker load: impedance and phase angles.

That does not mean an AVR is not sufficient, it depends. I know it is not sufficient for me.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

Rich, if the speakers aren't being harmed and their is no audable indication of clipping, would you spend the money on an amp that only buys you a theoretical advantage over an actual advantage?

BTW, this is an interesting article that analyzes amplifier clipping and concludes that it is the compression not the distortion that is likely the cause of tweeter failure:

http://www.adx.co.nz/techinfo/audio/note128.pdf

- Rich

 

[DannyA]

Bizmord, I appreciate the title because it is a subject that I have been thinking about. I'm really interested in knowing more about clipping and distortion. I'm going to start another post more specific to that subject.

BTW. Good luck with the new amp you know you want and will probably buy.

Pioneer PDP-5020FD
Yamaha RX-V3800
Samsung BD-F5700 Blu-ray Player
Sony - PS3
Definitive Technology BP7006 Mains
Definitive Technology CS-8060 HD Center
Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 1000 Surround
Power Sound Audio XS 15 Subwoofer

 

[PENG]

But I can see YOUR future. You will buy an amp anyway.

Didn't know you could see other's future. I am sure you are right about the OP getting an amp regardless. Can you see mine where I would have a pair of 201/2 or Salon 2?