What would be your top 2 vintage receivers or separates?

[mannye]

After refurbishing a Denon PMA-750 I found for peanuts at a thrift and comparing the sound to my much more expensive and generally highly regarded (even by me) Outlaw RR 2150 I came to the realization that vintage is a cut above in value/performance dollar for dollar.

The Denon, which after a good cleaning and a new relay/electrolytic caps and biasing sounded way better than the Outlaw through all the speakers I have including the Boston A70, the Thiel 04a, the Polk Monitor 4, a pair of Klipsch KG 5 and two little JBL bookshelf speakers i don't know the model number, all just sang with the Denon. My Sony PS-X5, Music Hall MMF-5 and Sony DVP-S7000 (6 bucks at the same thrift...wow) ALL were much better through the Denon. And the cost after all the refurb was still about half the cost of the Outlaw! And the Outlaw is good! This is just so much better. Needless to say, I put the RR2150 on ebay and away it went.

But now that I got a taste for this stuff, I want more. I was saving for a nice new system starting with the new Technics SL 1200 G with a Goldring 1012GX. So I'm thinking I can probably get a lot more sound and way better looks (I'm in love with the silver 70's look wood or no wood) for probably a little less money than the crazy prices they are asking for the new Technics stuff or new Macintosh (plus I'm not a fan of the Mac sound).

If you wanted to get the best TOTL 70's would you go Pioneer? Marantz? Sansui?

 

[M Code]

IMHO..
The best vintage receiver was the Marantz 2600..
It had:
a. Incredible phono preamp for mm cartridge
b. Pro audio power amplifier 400W x 2
c. Great FM 5-gang quartz-lock tuner with scope

It was designed by the USA Marantz R&D pro team, I have been using 1 for over 25 years for my music system. Even though I have other receivers NAD, HK this receiver is very musical. U can find them on-line but they are not cheap usually runs $4-5K.. A close friend was the product manager for Marantz and brought me this back from their Japanese factory..

Just my $0.02...

 

[mannye]

That's one of the ones I have my eye on. Also the less pretty but just as rare and good sounding Sansui G-33000.

They are very expensive but I think the one good thing about them is that the prices will probably hold relatively steady for many years. At the very least they won't experience the precipitous drop that new equipment will. Plus getting a top notch mm phono pre amp that would probably cost 1k all by itself should be factored in. Not to mention the Marantz is really a looker.

At the moment, I live in the radio wasteland of Miami where the dial is populated with trash that's compressed to death by the broadcasters. From one end of the FM dial to the other, crapola.

That is on the short list for sure. I'm hoping those prices represent a fully electronically restored and perfect cosmetic condition unit?

 

[TLS Guy]

That's one of the ones I have my eye on. Also the less pretty but just as rare and good sounding Sansui G-33000.

They are very expensive but I think the one good thing about them is that the prices will probably hold relatively steady for many years. At the very least they won't experience the precipitous drop that new equipment will. Plus getting a top notch mm phono pre amp that would probably cost 1k all by itself should be factored in. Not to mention the Marantz is really a looker.

At the moment, I live in the radio wasteland of Miami where the dial is populated with trash that's compressed to death by the broadcasters. From one end of the FM dial to the other, crapola.

That is on the short list for sure. I'm hoping those prices represent a fully electronically restored and perfect cosmetic condition unit?

For vintage separates the Quad separates from the Acoustical manufacturing company Huntingdon UK are in a class of their own.

Even the Quad 33 premp, with Quad FM3 tuner and Quad 33 preamp from 1969 are fantastic performers. 1969 was the first year for Quad transistor equipment. Prior to that going back to 1948 it is tube. The Quad 22 preamp and Quad II power amps and FM tuner.

The Quad current dumping amps are excellent especially the Quad 405 II, Quad 606 and Quad 909. The Quad 34 and 44 pre amps are spectacular, especially the Quad 44 preamp. This is the most versatile preamp for playing LPs I know of. There are clever and sophisticated ways to perfectly match any cartridge made to the preamp.

The Quad FM 4 tuner I think has to be considered one of the very best FM tuner ever made.

Quad gear really holds its value. Peter Walker the owner and designer was absolutely obsessed with reliability. There is good evidence most of the production is still in service. I have a couple of original 303 power amps form 1970 I have never opened the cases on.

In addition there are quite a few sites devoted solely to the restoration of Quad products.

Receivers on the other hand were pretty much a Japanese construct, with some US models also.

I would second the high end Marantz units pretty much being the top tier of those units.

 

[MattyB]

Oh, so many to choose from! Just two...

The Arcam A60 was a smashing amp for the price back in the 70's and still is great now if you can get a hold of one - fair price should be about $150-$200 if in mint condition you will need some 5 pin DIN to RCA adapters though!

From the same era - the Pioneer CT-F1000 cassette deck - brushed aluminum, lots of knobs and buttons and bouncy VU meters and top notch sound quality!

 

[mannye]

Thank you! Each response generates a lot of research! Another great thing about deciding to go vintage is that even though the chance to audition anything is slight, if for some reason I don't like the sound, unlike new gear, I can probably get most or all of the price paid back. While I don't exactly relish the idea of "rolling" huge receivers or separates, I like the fact that I wont take a bath if something isn't quite right for me.

 

[slipperybidness]

Thank you! Each response generates a lot of research! Another great thing about deciding to go vintage is that even though the chance to audition anything is slight, if for some reason I don't like the sound, unlike new gear, I can probably get most or all of the price paid back. While I don't exactly relish the idea of "rolling" huge receivers or separates, I like the fact that I wont take a bath if something isn't quite right for me.

I love those old Marantz and Pioneers with the wood ends and the chrome faceplates.

I would also love to get my hands on an old NAD 3020

 

[mannye]

I saw someone post asking how I had done the comparison with the Outlaw. I always employ my trusty SPL meter just to make sure I'm not being fooled by volume and if possible, which it is with these two, set them to direct to avoid getting fooled by tone controls. Unfortunately, I can't do any DBT because well, it's just me doing this, so... yeah. But I try to get as "equal" as possible.. same chair, distance, position of speakers, etc. I use Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall (stereo version) for the vinyl and Chesky's Audiophile Test CD Volume 3 Classics and Jazz in the Sony.

Despite having gobs more power, the Outlaw always seemed veiled and somehow struggling to get through all the speakers. I have a full set of Def Tech speakers in my home theater also powered by Outlaw (the amazing Outlaw 750, still going strong after almost 20 years now) so I know Outlaw makes great amps. I did not pull the BP 2002 powered towers out of the HT to try them out, but now I'm wondering... too late anyway, the 2150 is gone.

What happened to that post? I got the email but I don't see it in the thread... hmmmm.

 

[Rickster71]

Here's a link to many vintage tuners: http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts.html
It's a Shootout comparison of 84 Vintage Tuners:

1 PLUS: -C- Accuphase T-109V - Very natural sound, good bass. Pinpoint imaging. Lifelike, three-dimensional sound, smooth extended highs.
1 (TIE): -C- Kenwood L-02T - Most natural sound, good bass. Pinpoint imaging. Lifelike, three-dimensional sound.
1 (TIE): -C- Burmester 978 - Natural, open and airy sound, good bass. Pinpoint imaging. Lifelike, three-dimensional sound with nice extended highs.
4: -C- Sansui TU-919 - The prince who could be king.
5: -C- Sansui TU-X1 - Very good sound top to bottom. Big soundstage, three-dimensional. Very slight diffuse sound.
6: -C- Audiolab 8000T - Good bass, natural but diffuse sound, sweet extended highs.
7: -C- Philips AH6731 - A very natural, neutral sound. Stereo separation best with a good signal.
8: -C- Revox B760 - Great bass, lifelike midrange and extended highs.


9: -M- Mitsubishi DA-F20 - Quick, punchy bass, open, lively midrange and extended highs.
10: -M- Kenwood KT-5020 - Great bass and midrange and extended, sweet treble. Again, why pay more?
11: -M- Kenwood KT-990D - Smooth, clean sound that always pleased. Why pay more?
12: -M- Meridian Model 104 - Excellent, natural sound, good bass, no to DX games.
13: -M- Meridian Model 504 - Good bass, excellent midrange with smooth, just-right highs.
14: -M- Kenwood L-1000T - Good bass, punchy midrange, sweet extended highs.
15: -M- Sansui TU-X701 - Great-sounding midrange, bass OK, softer highs next to the L-02T.
16: -M- Luxman T-117 - Very good-sounding tuner. No real faults, top to bottom. Not as three-dimensional as the L-02T and gives up some bass richness.
17: -M- Sansui TU-717 - Good bass and midrange with nice "depth" to the soundstage. More forward than the L-02T.
18: -M- B&K TS-108 - Very nice midrange, good bass and nice, extended highs.
19: -M- Technics ST-9038 - Very good bass, nice midrange, smooth treble.
20: -M- Magnum Dynalab MD-108 - Bass OK, very good imaging and realistic midrange, extended but forward highs.
21: -M- Kenwood KT-917 - Good bass, midrange and treble. A very pleasant sound but more one-dimensional when placed next to the L-02T.
22: -M- Sansui TU-S9 - Smooth, natural sound. A budget bargain.
23: -M- Kenwood KT-1100 - Quite tuneful, but flatter soundstage than the L-02T.
24: -M- McIntosh MR 80 - Good bass, lively midrange and pleasant highs. More one-dimensional than the L-02T.
25: -M- Sanyo Plus T35 - Good bass, laidback midrange and extended, pleasant highs.
26: -M- Technics ST-G7 - Very nice bass, articulate midrange, forward but nice upper range.
27: -M- Pioneer F-99X - Follows behind the big bass dogs but the midrange and treble are where it's at. Sweet, clean, quiet and to be copied.
28: -M- Kenwood KT-3300D - Very good bass, slightly diffuse light mids and pleasant extended highs. A laidback, nice listen.
29: -M- Pioneer F-90 - Great sonics with a slightly lighter sonic presentation than the top dogs. Upper midrange and treble are top-notch.
30: -M- Sansui TU-D99X - Good bass. Bass, midrange and treble work well together for a balanced sound.
31: -M- Hitachi FT-007 - Clean, balanced sound, but less dynamic than the L-02T.
32: -M- Sony ST-J88B - Good bass, pleasing midrange, slightly forward and sweet treble.
33: -M- Linn Kremlin - OK bass; articulate, precise sound; good high frequency. Midrange, bass loses some natural warmth.
34: -M- Restek Metric - Excellent imaging, bass and highs. Midrange gave up some to other tuners.
35: -M- Onix TU39 - Dynamic, smooth, the midrange give up some "life" to others. Some added sparkle in the highs.
36: -M- Perreaux TU-3 - Nice balanced sound. Gives up some richness and dynamics to the L-02T.
37: -M- Magnum Dynalab FT-101 - Good all-around sound, treble very slightly forward.
38: -M- Kenwood L-07TII - Good all-around sound but loses some inner detail.
39: -M- Accuphase T-109 - Great bass, dry midrange, pleasant but slightly forward treble.
40: -M- Magnum Dynalab FT-101A Etude - A good, balanced sound, but slightly dry.
41: -M- Technics ST-8077 - Good bass, midrange OK. Nice treble presentation.
42: -M- Technics ST-8080 - Good bass, good midrange, forward highs but not unpleasant.
43: -M- Nikko Gamma V - Very good bass, good imaging, treble forward but not unpleasant.
44: -M- Kenwood KT-8300 - Good bass and dynamics, with a slightly forward upper midrange and treble.
45: -M- Onkyo T-4500 - Slightly lighter but a pleasing sound. Neutral, top to bottom, with nice highs.
46: -M- Onkyo T-9090II - Pleasant sound, good bass, but not as dynamic as some tuners. Great DX machine.
47: -M- NAD 4155 - Good, punchy bass. Light, articulate mids with well-mated highs.
48: -M- Pioneer F-91 - Very good bass punch and control, articulate midrange with forward highs. May be a good tuner for a large room.
49: -M- Pioneer TX-9800 - Rich bass presentation. Good midrange with a treble slightly forward that took away from the total picture.
50: -M- Tandberg 3011A - Good bass, midrange a little light, sweet treble. Very good imaging.
51: -M- Sansui TU-417 - A most pleasant sound, bottom to top. Needs good signals.
52: -M- Carver TX-11b - Punchy bass, clean highs and treble.
53: -M- Sumo Charlie - Punchy bass, good midrange, slightly rolled-off treble.
54: -M- Revox B260 - Rich bass and lower midrange. Good imaging. Three-dimensional. The highs are a little too much for my personal taste. The high rating reflects its other positive sound qualities.
55: -M- Yamaha CT-7000 - Warm-sounding bass, pleasant midrange and highs. Highs a little rolled-off.
56: -M- Sequerra Model 1 - Harmonically rich bass and lower midrange. Very seductive, but if you want accuracy, shop elsewhere.
57: -M- Magnum Dynalab FT-11 "NEW" - Good sound, natural midrange, treble nice, loose bass.
58: -M- Kenwood KT-7300 - Punchy bass, pleasant mids and highs. Slight loss of ambience.
59: -M- Onkyo T-4310R - Pleasant, inoffensive sound, good imaging. Good digital DXing tuner.
60: -M- Magnum Dynalab FT-101A - Pleasant light, airy sound. Lacks bass dynamics.
61: -M- Realistic TM-1001 - Sweet treble, pleasant mids, but the bass is not as full and dynamic as the big dogs.
62: -M- Yamaha T-2 - Very pleasant and listenable. This may be the cutoff tuner between the keepers and the also-rans.

63: Revox B261 - Punchy bass, pleasant enough but slightly forward mids and highs.
64: Pioneer TX-9500II - Clean, articulate sound. Lighter sonic presentation against the L-02T.
65: SAE Mark VI - Inoffensive sound, good background music. A mini-Sequerra.
66: Denon TU-850 - Good sound, midrange just right, treble sweet, slightly bass-shy.
67: Sansui TU-217 - Good sound when reception is strong.
68: Kenwood L-01T - Good sound, midrange slightly forward, good bass.
69: Phase Linear Model 5000 Series Two - Bass-shy, pleasant midrange and treble.
70: Magnum Dynalab FT-11 "OLD" - Good bass, dry midrange, treble OK.
71: Quad FM4 - Very nice midrange, good resolution, extended treble, rolled off bass.
72: Technics ST-9030 - Inoffensive but bland.
73: Naim NAT 01 - Bass OK, midrange OK, treble sweet.
74: Luxman T-115 - Good bass, midrange OK, treble slightly forward.
75: Nakamichi ST-7 - Muffled bass, forward midrange, highs soft and inoffensive.
76: Marantz 2130 - OK bass, midrange and treble forward and "light" sounding.
77: McIntosh MR 78 - Good bass, slightly electronic sound.
78: Fanfare FT-1A - Best through the low-output jacks, clean but bright midrange, lacks bass power.
79: Kenwood KT-7500 - Flat soundstage, better sound can be found. One-note bass. More boring than unpleasant in a long listening session.
80: Cambridge Audio T500 - Bass light, midrange forward and lacks focus, highs OK.
81: Kyocera T-910 - Pleasant sound, but what's that ringing in my ears?
82: SAE 8000 - Not irritating but not involving, either. Too much background noise.
83: Kenwood KT-815 - Bass thin, treble forward. It cries out for a new audio stage.
84: Denon TU-600 - Good sound, but not recommended because of reception problems.

 

[mannye]

Holy Cow! That was amazing! The dedication this Jim person put into critically listening and then writing up all those tuners!

Kind of makes me wish I had a station worth tuning in.

As I troll the internet looking for something, I'm starting to lean towards separates. I always figure that a great amp will follow me forever. In fact, as I scan the various thrift finds and new purchases I've made over the years and also think about the things I regret selling, the only thing I wish I hadn't sold was the Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks. Amps.

Turntables, receivers, speakers and preamps have come and gone and I have never looked back, but I still have my Outlaw amp, my mini-t amps, the Denon is never going anywhere...unless I find a better one and even then...

The only other things I've kept are my B&K Reference 30 and 50 because I think they still sound great...with the Outlaw amp and the DefTech speakers. Aside from the TV and projector, everything is made in the USA too!

So... I'm really liking the Marantz Model 9 monoblocks, but they are in the ridiculous zone for price. Is there anything similar that's not a down payment on a Lamborghini Aventador?

As I look at my favorite speakers, I'm guessing something that can handle crazy swings in impedance in case I get the urge to get stacked Quads one day... and that day is a-comin'

I've made so many edits to this post!

 

[M Code]

That's one of the ones I have my eye on. Also the less pretty but just as rare and good sounding Sansui G-33000.

They are very expensive but I think the one good thing about them is that the prices will probably hold relatively steady for many years. At the very least they won't experience the precipitous drop that new equipment will. Plus getting a top notch mm phono pre amp that would probably cost 1k all by itself should be factored in. Not to mention the Marantz is really a looker.

At the moment, I live in the radio wasteland of Miami where the dial is populated with trash that's compressed to death by the broadcasters. From one end of the FM dial to the other, crapola.

That is on the short list for sure. I'm hoping those prices represent a fully electronically restored and perfect cosmetic condition unit?

What many may not realize about the Marantz 2500/2600 that its amplifier heat sink/tunnel putting out up to 400W x 2 came from their pro-amplifier 510 series. That amplifier supported the big concert tours of the Eagles, Rhonstadt, Rolling Stones for many, many years just for the Eagle road tour setup was 72 amplifiers..

My 2600 is absolutely mint and I have been offered $5K for it. But even though being a CE insider we have access to a mulitude of brands/products the amplifiers in the 2600 to my ears still delivers the best, musical sonic performance..

Just my $0.02...

 

[Johnny2Bad]

I couldn't possibly limit it to two pre-1980 components. Not even 20.

Having said that, the far more important criteria is not whether it fared well as a Classic Audio product, but what working condition is it in now? For example, a Threshold 400A that only works in one channel is not a bargain, it's a headache, even though it was one of the best sounding power amps of the late 70's.

 

[mannye]

I couldn't possibly limit it to two pre-1980 components. Not even 20.

Having said that, the far more important criteria is not whether it fared well as a Classic Audio product, but what working condition is it in now? For example, a Threshold 400A that only works in one channel is not a bargain, it's a headache, even though it was one of the best sounding power amps of the late 70's.

I totally get that. I'm not looking for a bargain. I'm totally willing to spend what it takes to get either a refurbished example or to get something that's in decent shape and have it restored by a pro. I just think that dollar for dollar, anyone willing to take the time to search and go through the inconvenience of restoring equipment will, in the end, get more value for money.

Otherwise I would just blow a wad on that new gorgeous D'Agostino amp and a set of stacked Quads and call it a day.

But where's the fun in that?