What would be the best HT solution in this situation?

[SanctiMortem]

Hi all,

Thank you in advance for the interest and help.

I'm remodeling my home and what is now my bedroom will become an office, family, music room.. and I am trying to find a way to add my home theater or a new home theater setup.
The problem is, the architects proposal for the area is not the best for a HT. The project is still open to changes obviously, but in the meantime the solution they gave for that area it would be the best for the overall floor.

This is the floor plan proposal (attached file)

That is the area for the Home Theater. As you can see the right wall, (exterior) is on an angle, which could be good if it was symmetric on the other side; that wall has a "small" window on the top of the wall about 45 cm tall.
On the other side we have a glass wall of 4 panels. Each panel can be moved independently so it can be completely closed, open on the sides, open on the middle, or open completely creating a great big common area.
Here is a render:

The POV of the first render, is where the TV would be.

One of the options the Architect gave me was to add a roll "blanket" like curtain that would come down from the roof to add extra acoustics to the glass panel side and deal with reverberance.

I want to install a 7.1.2 Atmos system

My questions are..

Can there be a solution for a well functioning HT system?
with the right equipment and right positioning on this floor plan proposal, can it work??
What system would you recommend considering the current proposal ?

My idea was to make the desk behind the couch have a special area for the SR speakers, not sure if the distance is way to close. have the side speakers on the ceiling with a small inclination to add more directional audio away from the window and glass panel. have the Atmos speakers on the ceiling as well and have the left center and right o the wall where the tv is.

If its a better option I could add the SR Speaker n the Ceiling as well.

The height of the Ceiling is about 2.65 or so to the Concrete Slab.
There is a small chance the column on the left top of the sofa can be removed, but it has a vertical water pipes that we aren't sure if its only for my home or the whole building.

I am open to any ideas, comments and solutions you may have. I really appreciate your help!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi all,

Thank you in advance for the interest and help.

I'm remodeling my home and what is now my bedroom will become an office, family, music room.. and I am trying to find a way to add my home theater or a new home theater setup.
The problem is, the architects proposal for the area is not the best for a HT. The project is still open to changes obviously, but in the meantime the solution they gave for that area it would be the best for the overall floor.

This is the floor plan proposal (attached file)

View attachment 64435

That is the area for the Home Theater. As you can see the right wall, (exterior) is on an angle, which could be good if it was symmetric on the other side; that wall has a "small" window on the top of the wall about 45 cm tall.
On the other side we have a glass wall of 4 panels. Each panel can be moved independently so it can be completely closed, open on the sides, open on the middle, or open completely creating a great big common area.
Here is a render:
View attachment 64438
View attachment 64439
View attachment 64440

The POV of the first render, is where the TV would be.

One of the options the Architect gave me was to add a roll "blanket" like curtain that would come down from the roof to add extra acoustics to the glass panel side and deal with reverberance.

I want to install a 7.1.2 Atmos system

My questions are..

Can there be a solution for a well functioning HT system?
with the right equipment and right positioning on this floor plan proposal, can it work??
What system would you recommend considering the current proposal ?

My idea was to make the desk behind the couch have a special area for the SR speakers, not sure if the distance is way to close. have the side speakers on the ceiling with a small inclination to add more directional audio away from the window and glass panel. have the Atmos speakers on the ceiling as well and have the left center and right o the wall where the tv is.
View attachment 64441

If its a better option I could add the SR Speaker n the Ceiling as well.

The height of the Ceiling is about 2.65 or so to the Concrete Slab.
There is a small chance the column on the left top of the sofa can be removed, but it has a vertical water pipes that we aren't sure if its only for my home or the whole building.

I am open to any ideas, comments and solutions you may have. I really appreciate your help!

That room is a total lot cause as a home theater space. Don't waste your money. Find another space in the home for HT. That room is suitable for 2.1 or 3.1 at a push, but is acoustically not good for anything.

If you are building a home then you need a dedicated space to optimize HT, which is what I did. Architects have no clue about HT as a rule. So in those matters you have to take over and draw the plans yourself, like I did.

 

[tensyo]

I have a few tips for you for your speaker placement:
Front left and right speakers: On either side of the TV, at ear level when seated.
Center speaker: Below or above the TV, aligned with the center of the listening area.
Surround left and right speakers: Ceiling-mounted, angled towards the listening area.
Surround back left and right speakers: Ceiling-mounted, angled towards the listening area.
Atmos speakers: Four ceiling-mounted speakers, two in front and two behind the listening area.

 

[Wardog555]

5.1.4 and it's doable.
Fronts at 30 degrees. Center underneath the display.
Surrounds on that table behind the couch. wall mount. Or using speaker stands
4 atmos speakers in a square over the listening position.

Acoustic treatments are going to be required whether it's carpet or other methods.
Do not have a hard floor no matter what.

Last idea if you're unwilling to accept what it takes for home theater is find another room like a bedroom for the theater.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You have to make a decision on the purpose of any and every space in your home and really determine if the compromise you are creating is worth the effort.

Speakers on floor stands? Do they actually work in this space? Is there a spot for them that won't just be in the way? On end tables? Does it actually help the overall sound, or is there just to make noise?

In ceiling Atmos is easy enough to do, but is that what you want? Would you rather have in-ceiling surrounds?

This space isn't designed to be a home theater. I'm not sure how well it functions as a good family room with television, but it looks okay in that regard. Popping in a decent 3.1 audio system seems like what this setup was designed for. If your goal is a good 7.1.4 theater, then this room wasn't designed for it, in any way. If that's what you want, and you have the money/build potential to get it, then that's what I would do. I would tell the architect that they are missing the actual final functional goal of the space in favor of making sure it is super modern looking.

Kind of like sliding panels that don't block sound at all, when doors do an amazing job. It's a choice in design, but it's not necessarily something that makes a home better. Open architecture looks quite nice, until every noise from one room carries upstairs and throughout the house.

It doesn't mean it is wrong, it doesn't mean it is bad. It's a choice, and part of the compromise of life.

That room is designed for a 3.1 system. You can put a 7.1.4 system in there, if you are willing to put floor stands in for speakers in all the right places, or put speakers in the wrong places, or to use smaller speakers in some places that are between the two. It's not like the architect said "Here is where the speakers will be placed, according to industry standards.", the way which would occur in a home theater design.

This is a family room. Don't expect it to be a home theater. That is not what it was designed for. Which doesn't mean you don't enjoy it however you may choose.

But, it does feel like you have some real world control over this at this point. So, what you do here seems like it is very much up to you.

 

[SanctiMortem]

Thank your for your time! I am indeed with some control over it, sadly the room is the only one I can use for that, although I have full control over it.

But using another room would basically take one of the bedrooms and that wouldn’t be possible because of the kids.



Like many of you stated, yes floor speakers are nor the best option since we have 3 dogs, and even though they don’t chew furniture or jump and run and knock over stuff, we still rather not setup the setting for it to happen.



I appreciate all of you for the time and thought, I’ll try to answer as much as I can.



I understand this is not a room design for a HT and I would love it to be, but considering all of the need we have as a family, I can’t just ignore many of them and go for it, if it would he a house not on the city, I would definitely just build another room, but being an apartment building in the middle of a city thats just not possible and I need to make do with the space and area the building has. For the same reason if I want to place an entertainment system it would have to be adapted to this area.



I also believe the only way would be ceiling speakers, I have never used ceiling speakers for a HT, I’ve heard a system with them but not anything more than that really.



I am not opposed to spend a lot in this, and although is not an unlimited budget, I believe it could be enough to find a solution to make it as close as possible to a great experience.



I am not very knowledgeable about the subject, although I try to learn as much and all, I try to learn as much as possible when I’m building a setup but after is done I usually don’t keep learning much and then it happens again I get back at relearning hahaha



Like many of you said, they room its not made for a HT, and yes its design for looks and other purposes, and the glass panels are though for an open area when not in need of a private area, where you can receive guests and family, and closed of when you need privacy, reading, working, playing music etc.

The place I used to work at I believe they had glass panels made for soundproofing with double glass and an air gap and they worked really well, not sure how they would behave with reverberance, although I believe is the same tech used for the glass window/panel in recording studios.



I would love to work this idea since is the design we are most confortable with. But they know one of main points of the home is to have an entertainment area. For that reason if its really unachievable, then the floor plan would be rethought again.



I do trust in all of your opinions and of course I know architects aren’t the best most qualified person for this, but they are needed regardless for the whole project.

I will still have an acoustics engineer come and work with the final floor plan, but I cant have him design the room since I need more uses for that area and and is part of the rest of the project so a collaboration would be the only way



I really do appreciate all of your help! And thank you, thank you very much for everything!



Best Regards!

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank your for your time! I am indeed with some control over it, sadly the room is the only one I can use for that, although I have full control over it.

But using another room would basically take one of the bedrooms and that wouldn’t be possible because of the kids.



Like many of you stated, yes floor speakers are nor the best option since we have 3 dogs, and even though they don’t chew furniture or jump and run and knock over stuff, we still rather not setup the setting for it to happen.



I appreciate all of you for the time and thought, I’ll try to answer as much as I can.



I understand this is not a room design for a HT and I would love it to be, but considering all of the need we have as a family, I can’t just ignore many of them and go for it, if it would he a house not on the city, I would definitely just build another room, but being an apartment building in the middle of a city thats just not possible and I need to make do with the space and area the building has. For the same reason if I want to place an entertainment system it would have to be adapted to this area.



I also believe the only way would be ceiling speakers, I have never used ceiling speakers for a HT, I’ve heard a system with them but not anything more than that really.



I am not opposed to spend a lot in this, and although is not an unlimited budget, I believe it could be enough to find a solution to make it as close as possible to a great experience.



I am not very knowledgeable about the subject, although I try to learn as much and all, I try to learn as much as possible when I’m building a setup but after is done I usually don’t keep learning much and then it happens again I get back at relearning hahaha



Like many of you said, they room its not made for a HT, and yes its design for looks and other purposes, and the glass panels are though for an open area when not in need of a private area, where you can receive guests and family, and closed of when you need privacy, reading, working, playing music etc.

The place I used to work at I believe they had glass panels made for soundproofing with double glass and an air gap and they worked really well, not sure how they would behave with reverberance, although I believe is the same tech used for the glass window/panel in recording studios.



I would love to work this idea since is the design we are most confortable with. But they know one of main points of the home is to have an entertainment area. For that reason if its really unachievable, then the floor plan would be rethought again.



I do trust in all of your opinions and of course I know architects aren’t the best most qualified person for this, but they are needed regardless for the whole project.

I will still have an acoustics engineer come and work with the final floor plan, but I cant have him design the room since I need more uses for that area and and is part of the rest of the project so a collaboration would be the only way



I really do appreciate all of your help! And thank you, thank you very much for everything!



Best Regards!

You can not do HT with ceiling speakers, and certainly not Atmos.

I have to tell you straight up, you are wasting your time trying to do Atmos in that room. That is a great room. Your best option is a really good 3.1 in wall system and forget the rest.

I have a great room, and I designed and built a really good in wall system, that my wife loves. I also have an HT room, but i could never to a surround and certainly not an Atmos system in the great room.

That is a 3.1 system, with an in wall sub and a darn good one as well.

The system is powered with 1000 watts and easily fills that space.

Now a system designed like that will give you in excess of 90% of he HT experience, whereas what you are proposing will give you 1% if you are lucky.

 

[SanctiMortem]

You can not do HT with ceiling speakers, and certainly not Atmos.

I have to tell you straight up, you are wasting your time trying to do Atmos in that room. That is a great room. Your best option is a really good 3.1 in wall system and forget the rest.

I have a great room, and I designed and built a really good in wall system, that my wife loves. I also have an HT room, but i could never to a surround and certainly not an Atmos system in the great room.

That is a 3.1 system, with an in wall sub and a darn good one as well.

The system is powered with 1000 watts and easily fills that space.

Now a system designed like that will give you in excess of 90% of he HT experience, whereas what you are proposing will give you 1% if you are lucky.

Thank you,

So even if the design is not like in the render or the floor plan with panels and stuff, taking on account only the area and external wall with possibility of changing the design internal walls and all, you would still not recommend at all a HT setup there? My initial idea was to have acoustic panels on the back and a isolated wall on the left (where the panels are right now) or have it sideways, TV where the glass panels are right now and have a closed area with a door on the top part, but it makes it small, like really small.
So the room, with no walls and the possibility of re-arranging it how ever it need to, and adding whatever it demands its still not a plausible alternative?

Thank you!
Have a good one!

 

[Eppie]

An important thing to bear in mind with HT is how to get wire runs to speaker locations. Where is the receiver going to be located? That might preclude you from using rear or side surrounds on stands unless you don't mind running wires under floor rugs.

For the shape of the room I think your original floor plan makes sense but the shape of the room and materials preclude this from being a true HT setup. That's why some are strongly discouraging a surround setup. I don't see side and rear surrounds fitting in this space, so 5.1.4 as Wardog555 mentioned is likely the best you could hope for if you go with rear or side surrounds. If you want overhead ATMOS, you need to have the 5 bed layer speakers at ear level. The angled wall and glass sliders and other hard materials will make a mess of the acoustics though. OK for casual TV but will make a true surround experience challenging.

That puts me in the same camp as BMXTRIX. Treat it as a family room and decide what your goals and expectations are. If you don't want rear or side speakers at ear level, then forget about ATMOS. A good ATMOS setup needs to have proper speaker placement including the bed layer. 3.1 can work ok in this room but ceiling speakers will not create a proper surround envelope. A pair of in-ceiling surrounds behind the couch can be enough to add some ambience and sense of depth in a 5.1 setup but will not give the HT experience that a proper 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 can. Under no circumstances place all of the surrounds and ATMOS speakers in the ceiling. That would be a waste of money.

If you want some flexibility, run conduit and pre-wire 4 ceiling speakers during construction. You'll have the option to add speakers later if you desire. You could start with 3 good front speakers and see how that goes. The front 3 are the most important anyway and where most of the budget should go. Experimenting with rear or side surrounds would just be a matter of running some wire along the floor and having side or end tables to try them on.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

An important thing to bear in mind with HT is how to get wire runs to speaker locations. Where is the receiver going to be located? That might preclude you from using rear or side surrounds on stands unless you don't mind running wires under floor rugs.

For the shape of the room I think your original floor plan makes sense but the shape of the room and materials preclude this from being a true HT setup. That's why some are strongly discouraging a surround setup. I don't see side and read surrounds fitting in this space, so 5.1.4 as Wardog555 mentioned is likely the best you could hope for if you go with rear or side surrounds. If you want overhead ATMOS, you need to have the 5 bed layers speakers at ear level. The angled wall and glass sliders and other hard materials will make a mess of the acoustics though. OK for casual TV but will make a true surround experience challenging.

That puts me in the same camp as BMXTRIX. Treat it as a family room and decide what your goals and expectations are. If you don't want rear or side speakers at ear level, then forget about ATMOS. A good ATMOS setup needs to have proper speaker placement including the bed layer. 3.1 can work ok in this room but ceiling speakers will not create a proper surround envelope. A pair of in-ceiling surrounds behind the couch can be enough to add some ambience and sense of depth in a 5.1 setup but will not give the HT experience that a proper 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 can. Under no circumstances place all of the surrounds and ATMOS speakers in the ceiling. That would be a waste of money.

If you want some flexibility, run conduit and pre-wire 4 ceiling speakers during construction. You'll have the option to add speakers later if you desire. You could start with 3 good front speakers and see how that goes. The front 3 are the most important anyway and where most of the budget should go. Experimenting with rear or side surrounds would just be a matter of running some wire along the floor and having side or end tables to try them on.

Pretty much what I was gonna say. Some people do 5/7.1 with sides and rears in the ceiling and as you said, it won’t be a real HT experience, but it will give something. You’re definitely right on Atmos too. All in the ceiling will be a waste.

 

[mono-bloc]

Don't waste your time and money with that room, Simply buy a Sound Bar and enjoy it.

 

[SanctiMortem]

Thank you!!
I appreciate the answer, and I now do understand what you all mean about the ceiling for Atmos, just didn’t really clicked till now.
The wiring and all that is not a problem the home will be completely remade, we are even changing walls, concrete slab, stairs and all.. so we will have the opportunity to leave everything pre wired and ready to go. There will be a site, and en entertainment “station” somewhere in the room. Obviously I just need to settle on what the room will be like.

That said. I could add material, walls, lower roofs, and all sort of things to make it work if dimensions and shape allows it. What I mean is, maybe the glass panels at the end of the day do not work and we go for a wall, with insulation. And an inclination on the back of the roof with acoustic material, etc..
now if you guys tell me no matter the material or work you put in it, the shape will be a complete mess.. then thats it haha and I’ll start looking at making the best of it knowing there is basically no option for a HT in that room!

Thank you!

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you,

So even if the design is not like in the render or the floor plan with panels and stuff, taking on account only the area and external wall with possibility of changing the design internal walls and all, you would still not recommend at all a HT setup there? My initial idea was to have acoustic panels on the back and a isolated wall on the left (where the panels are right now) or have it sideways, TV where the glass panels are right now and have a closed area with a door on the top part, but it makes it small, like really small.
So the room, with no walls and the possibility of re-arranging it how ever it need to, and adding whatever it demands its still not a plausible alternative?

Thank you!
Have a good one!

Your real issue is the architect. I can see on close study, he needs drastic re-education about domestic spaces.

That really is a multipurpose space. However apart from the dining area the spaces are not clearly defined. I do not see an intimate family space. A family space like that really does require an intimate family gathering space. If you know what you are doing you can define spaces without walls or barriers.

I came from a family of builders. My father though not an architect, used to spend hours redrawing plans. I was building chairman of our medical center for many years. I can tell you architects in the main have to be handled with a very firm hand. That was the case for our home here, and more especially the interior designer.

All I can do is show you what I mean by our multipurpose great room. This is a large space they takes up by far the lion's share of the main floor.

This gives you an idea of the scale of the space.

The kitchen is clearly a work space.

This is clearly a dining space.

The dining space can easily be extended.

Then of course there is the intimate family space.

Note there are two focal points, the fireplace and the AV system. Note that you only need a short wall seen at the end of the kitchen counter to define a space.

Now to return to the AV.

In its essential, all audio and AV is essentially about telling stories. Music can do it without speech. However speech is essentially involved in AV. That means clear AND natural speech is of paramount importance. It also has to center to the screen (certainly not the ceiling) and do that perfectly throughout the space, and that includes the kitchen area. You also need enough power to fill the space.

What I have found is that sound coming all over the place is an interesting bonus, but not essential. A 3.1 or even a 2.1 like that does the job very well. The dialog is clear and natural, screen centric and does not favor one listener over another. It has to perform flawlessly whether you are watching a musical, action movie, the evening news, or some breaking event. It must to a really good job with all that is thrown at it. In another words if done right it becomes part of the family.

Whether there are effects from above, or behind, is of little importance compared to what I have highlighted. I have given you the distillation of what I have learned about the design of these spaces and correctly equipping them with appropriate AV.

 

[SanctiMortem]

Your real issue is the architect. I can see on close study, he needs drastic re-education about domestic spaces.

That really is a multipurpose space. However apart from the dining area the spaces are not clearly defined. I do not see an intimate family space. A family space like that really does require an intimate family gathering space. If you know what you are doing you can define spaces without walls or barriers.

I came from a family of builders. My father though not an architect, used to spend hours redrawing plans. I was building chairman of our medical center for many years. I can tell you architects in the main have to be handled with a very firm hand. That was the case for our home here, and more especially the interior designer.

All I can do is show you what I mean by our multipurpose great room. This is a large space they takes up by far the lion's share of the main floor.

This gives you an idea of the scale of the space.

The kitchen is clearly a work space.

This is clearly a dining space.

The dining space can easily be extended.

Then of course there is the intimate family space.

Note there are two focal points, the fireplace and the AV system. Note that you only need a short wall seen at the end of the kitchen counter to define a space.

Now to return to the AV.

In its essential, all audio and AV is essentially about telling stories. Music can do it without speech. However speech is essentially involved in AV. That means clear AND natural speech is of paramount importance. It also has to center to the screen (certainly not the ceiling) and do that perfectly throughout the space, and that includes the kitchen area. You also need enough power to fill the space.

What I have found is that sound coming all over the place is an interesting bonus, but not essential. A 3.1 or even a 2.1 like that does the job very well. The dialog is clear and natural, screen centric and does not favor one listener over another. It has to perform flawlessly whether you are watching a musical, action movie, the evening news, or some breaking event. It must to a really good job with all that is thrown at it. In another words if done right it becomes part of the family.

Whether there are effects from above, or behind, is of little importance compared to what I have highlighted. I have given you the distillation of what I have learned about the design of these spaces and correctly equipping them with appropriate AV.

Thank you,
I am working with them to have a new design on the family room, focused more on the entertainment system than on the versatility of the space with the other areas. That being said, in all fairness we did asked then for a multipurpose room were I can work, my girl can read I can play my bass and all. And they told us they are more than open to be more restricted with that area, but to at least take a look at their proposal. Good thing is, this is the very first proposal. I will probably bother you guys again sometime soon with the changes made and hopefully a solution for an awesome HT.
I do know it won’t be a huge HT room dedicated only to that since I do need the office and music space. But I guess we will keep at it for now hahaha

thank you all! Sometimes its hard to see all those points while also considering everything else on the home and I really don’t want to end up unsatisfied with the end result because I didn’t take the time to go through it!

 

[Wardog555]

Have a read up on https://dolby.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/700000009YuG/a/4u000000lFHc/UYA0IZeD632SUXVmEPmUcr.wIuhpHp6Q7bVSl4LrbUQ

And focus on the main points which are the angles from listening position.

The whole point here is to piriotze the home theater aspect and do anything else afterwards.
Any personal interference will make this project horrible.

 

[SanctiMortem]

Have a read up on https://dolby.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/700000009YuG/a/4u000000lFHc/UYA0IZeD632SUXVmEPmUcr.wIuhpHp6Q7bVSl4LrbUQ

And focus on the main points which are the angles from listening position.

The whole point here is to piriotze the home theater aspect and do anything else afterwards.
Any personal interference will make this project horrible.

Thank you!! will do!