What volume do you watch movies at usually?

[yepimonfire]

Just curious to see if I’m nuts with the volume or if we all kinda fall in the same range. Me personally, I usually fall between -15dB to -5dB, if the movie has exceptionally well utilized dynamic range (ie the dark knight trilogy), ill go all the way to 0dB.

One thing I did notice, it’s much easier to listen to a louder level with the room properly treated, since those high spl peaks don’t ring on and on. It’s almost as if a highly reverberant room “compresses” the dynamics, making them sound louder overall as an average.

Also worth noting:
Many bluray releases are remixed for home audio in smaller room than you typical theatrical dub stage, so 0dB (calibrated to 85dB with -20dBfs pink noise or 75dB with -30dBfs pink noise) isn’t always appropriate. Many remixing engineers will mix in a smaller room similar to a home theater at 79-82dB instead, and a movie mixed at the lower end of that range would be way too loud at 0dB.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't really have a set level.

I set my level by the dialog. I set the level for a normal conversational speech level. I do not like the dialog shouting at me. Fortunately my systems have extremely natural speech.

If the movie is mixed properly, then the music and effects do not cover the dialog. There are some mixes that are poor in this regard and so the average level needs to be a bit higher than I like.

I find that in the telling of a story and being engrossed in it, having natural speech at a realistic conversational volume is key.

 

[PENG]

Typically low to mid 70's dB for me with volume between -20 to -15. If I crank it up to around 0 I do get the THX 85 dB average, roughly. I have the impression that most every BR/HDDVD movies I own were recorded mix to THX standard and have had no trouble getting 85 dB from my listening position at or near volume position 0. I have no idea what you were referring to about "remixing...." to lower levels......, unless I misunderstood you.

 

[TLS Guy]

Typically low to mid 70's dB for me with volume between -20 to -15. If I crank it up to around 0 I do get the THX 85 dB average, roughly. I have the impression that most every BR/HDDVD movies I own were recorded mix to THX standard and have had no trouble getting 85 dB from my listening position at or near volume position 0. I have no idea what you were referring to about "remixing...." to lower levels......, unless I misunderstood you.

I said nothing about remixing. What I'm getting at, is that in some movies I have to have the average level higher than I like as background music and other effects can cover voices.

I note that the sound of movies mixed in Europe is of a far higher standard than those mixed in the US.

I think this is an educational issue. The US is seriously lacking in formal educational programs. We do not have the equivalent of the UK's RADA, that trains for the theater arts, acting and behind the scenes and all all aspects of production.

We do not offer decent Tonemeister degrees that originated in Germany and spread across Europe. The University of Sussex has a particularly outstanding program.

All this shows in the quality of production and acting.

 

[PENG]

I said nothing about remixing. What I'm getting at, is that in some movies I have to have the average level higher than I like as background music and other effects can cover voices.

Not you, yepi did, he said:

Also worth noting:
Many bluray releases are remixed for home audio in smaller room than you typical theatrical dub stage, so 0dB (calibrated to 85dB with -20dBfs pink noise or 75dB with -30dBfs pink noise) isn’t always appropriate. Many remixing engineers will mix in a smaller room similar to a home theater at 79-82dB instead, and a movie mixed at the lower end of that range would be way too loud at 0dB.

Again, I might have misunderstood his point.

 

[mtrycrafts]

For me, it all depends on the move. Some need -15 to -13, most around -18 to -20 and a few I found I can only do -23 or so.

 

[lovinthehd]

These days mostly around -20, sometimes up to -15 or -10 depending on film.

 

[everettT]

Seems like the over 40 crowd listens around the same levels if I listened at thx ref levels it would be uncomfortable for most guests. As TLS mentioned, I tend to set the volume to the dialog.

Got a feeling that YIOF might have some hearing issues when he reaches mid life.

 

[yepimonfire]

Typically low to mid 70's dB for me with volume between -20 to -15. If I crank it up to around 0 I do get the THX 85 dB average, roughly. I have the impression that most every BR/HDDVD movies I own were recorded mix to THX standard and have had no trouble getting 85 dB from my listening position at or near volume position 0. I have no idea what you were referring to about "remixing...." to lower levels......, unless I misunderstood you.

Printmasters intended for the theatrical release are mixed in a much larger room than a typical home theater. Most have Hollywood dub stages are between 40,000-60,000 cubic feet, most home theaters are between 1500-5000 cubic feet. Psychoacoustically, a big room tends to flatten out the dynamics, and 85dB doesn’t sound too loud. If a theatrical mix was played back in a small room (ie a typical living room), you wouldn’t even be able to understand the dialogue or low level sounds without the volume being unbearable, in addition, boundary gain introduced by small rooms would cause the lfe to be overpowering. Before a theatrical release goes to Blu-ray, the movie is remixed in a smaller room, generally calibrated at about 79-82dB, and the mix stems are adjusted to maintain the same perceptual loudness and dynamic range when played back in a typical living room.

 

[PENG]

Printmasters intended for the theatrical release are mixed in a much larger room than a typical home theater. Most have Hollywood dub stages are between 40,000-60,000 cubic feet, most home theaters are between 1500-5000 cubic feet. Psychoacoustically, a big room tends to flatten out the dynamics, and 85dB doesn’t sound too loud. If a theatrical mix was played back in a small room (ie a typical living room), you wouldn’t even be able to understand the dialogue or low level sounds without the volume being unbearable, in addition, boundary gain introduced by small rooms would cause the lfe to be overpowering. Before a theatrical release goes to Blu-ray, the movie is remixed in a smaller room, generally calibrated at about 79-82dB, and the mix stems are adjusted to maintain the same perceptual loudness and dynamic range when played back in a typical living room.

Then you may have to upgrade some of your gear. I don't feel I have such issues with mine, and I do watch movies in cinemas now and then so I know the difference. Admittedly I was very meticulous in running Audyssey and took numerous measurements (REW/Umik-1 mic) after, to see the results, in addition to going by ears.

 

[yepimonfire]

Then you may have to upgrade some of your gear. I don't feel I have such issues with mine, and I do watch movies in cinemas now and then so I know the difference. Admittedly I was very meticulous in running Audyssey and took numerous measurements (REW/Umik-1 mic) after, to see the results, in addition to going by ears.

You missed the point again

It’s not about the gain on the volume knob, I’m referring to the mix. When @Tlsguy mentioned some movies having to be turned so loud that the dialogue is shouting at you in order to prevent the effects or music from drowning out the voice/low level sounds, that’s indicative of a poorly remixed home release.

If someone burned the unedited theatrical mix to a bluray, and you played it back at 0dBfs, it’d sound like poop in a living room.

You say you watch movies in the cinema and it sounds similar at home, correct? If you looked at the stems from the original theatrical mix and compared them to the blu-ray mix, you’d be surprised to notice that the relative loudness is much different between the two, yet they sound identical in a living room to a movie theater when played back at the same perceptual loudness.

The issue with not always being able to turn the knob to 0dB generally applies to LPCM/DTS HD-MA mixes, not because they are mixed differently, but because unlike Dolby Digital/TrueHD, they don’t contain Dialnorm metadata, which actually tells the AVR what the average dialogue level is and properly modified the gain structure so that 0dB on the volume knob equates to an average level of 85dB with a dialogue level of -27dBfs rms (about 75-80dB).

I’ve noticed that Dolby TrueHD, DD+ used in streaming formats, and movies via cable in standard DD all play back very consistently at 0dB. DTS discs are all over the map.

 

[yepimonfire]

Seems like the over 40 crowd listens around the same levels if I listened at thx ref levels it would be uncomfortable for most guests. As TLS mentioned, I tend to set the volume to the dialog.

Got a feeling that YIOF might have some hearing issues when he reaches mid life.

Nope.

If you take the Leq A of a typical movie (let's take thor for example, since I've actually measured it) of 79dBA and calculate the time weighted average against the NIOSH standard, it'sd only a 6.3% dose for a 2 hour movie. Even a louder movie like interstellar, which was about 82dBA, the's still only like 12%.

I don't listen to music above 80-85dBA, and I don't have loud hobbies (shooting or woodworking), so i should be just fine.

 

[PENG]

You missed the point again

It’s not about the gain on the volume knob, I’m referring to the mix. When @Tlsguy mentioned some movies having to be turned so loud that the dialogue is shouting at you in order to prevent the effects or music from drowning out the voice/low level sounds, that’s indicative of a poorly remixed home release.

No, I did not miss you point, I understood you were talking "mix", not the "gain on the volume knob". I just don't believe your "claim" about the "remixed home release... part", and that's the point that I said right from the beginning that I might have misunderstood you. I thought you were "claiming" that movies we purchased from say Bestbuy, in BR, DVD formats, were "remixed for home entertainment" and that they were not mixed to THX standards in terms of the reference levels, dynamic peak etc. Again, I did say I might have misunderstood you on that point, that point only.

You say you watch movies in the cinema and it sounds similar at home, correct? If you looked at the stems from the original theatrical mix and compared them to the blu-ray mix, you’d be surprised to notice that the relative loudness is much different between the two, yet they sound identical in a living room to a movie theater when played back at the same perceptual loudness.

I really don't know as I don't fully understand what you meany by "look at the stems from the........". I just don't feel I am missing much watching the same BR movie in my home HT in terms of sound pressure level.

The issue with not always being able to turn the knob to 0dB generally applies to LPCM/DTS HD-MA mixes, not because they are mixed differently, but because unlike Dolby Digital/TrueHD, they don’t contain Dialnorm metadata, which actually tells the AVR what the average dialogue level is and properly modified the gain structure so that 0dB on the volume knob equates to an average level of 85dB with a dialogue level of -27dBfs rms (about 75-80dB).

Okay, thanks, and unless and I until I read something different from some reliable sources, I am going to take your word for it.

 

[Blue Dude]

I've changed some as I've upgraded my system. I have a more capable receiver, a well-treated room, and 2 subs, so I simply don't have to play it as loud to get a satisfying experience. I use Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which adjusts frequency response (typically bass) according to the volume setting to have a perceived even response as you lower the volume from reference. I used to watch movies at around ref -5dB just to get the full bass and slam, but now I rarely adjust higher than ref -10dB. My wife has sensitive ears so we watch at ref -25dB and it sounds great; it just doesn't go boom real good for guy movies.

 

[ErnieM]

I've changed some as I've upgraded my system. I have a more capable receiver, a well-treated room, and 2 subs, so I simply don't have to play it as loud to get a satisfying experience. I use Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which adjusts frequency response (typically bass) according to the volume setting to have a perceived even response as you lower the volume from reference. I used to watch movies at around ref -5dB just to get the full bass and slam, but now I rarely adjust higher than ref -10dB. My wife has sensitive ears so we watch at ref -25dB and it sounds great; it just doesn't go boom real good for guy movies.

Usually we watch films at around -18 to - 14 dB. My wife also has very sensitive hearing. And my young adult son who lives with us and who has excellent hearing also likes it a bit lower.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... When @Tlsguy mentioned some movies having to be turned so loud that the dialogue is shouting at you in order to prevent the effects or music from drowning out the voice/low level sounds, that’s indicative of a poorly remixed home release.

....

I am just wondering that if you increase volume to hear dialogue, background music would also increase drowning out the dialogue, again.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I thought earplugs are for those sensitive eared persons.

 

[yepimonfire]

No, I did not miss you point, I understood you were talking "mix", not the "gain on the volume knob". I just don't believe your "claim" about the "remixed home release... part", and that's the point that I said right from the beginning that I might have misunderstood you. I thought you were "claiming" that movies we purchased from say Bestbuy, in BR, DVD formats, were "remixed for home entertainment" and that they were not mixed to THX standards in terms of the reference levels, dynamic peak etc. Again, I did say I might have misunderstood you on that point, that point only.



I really don't know as I don't fully understand what you meany by "look at the stems from the........". I just don't feel I am missing much watching the same BR movie in my home HT in terms of sound pressure level.



Okay, thanks, and unless and I until I read something different from some reliable sources, I am going to take your word for it.

This is a very good explanation of what I am talking about. The audio engineer in the thread gets attacked by several forum members insisting that they’re “ruining the mix” by altering it from the theatrical version, but I’d say for the most part he is 100% correct in saying an unaltered theatrical mix just does not translate correctly into a small room. It has nothing to do with having capable speakers, but the perceptual difference in both relative loudness and dynamic range based on the size of the room and proximity to the speakers.

You’re correct that the peak levels (105dB per channel) still apply. If the mix engineer decides to bump up the dialogue by 6dB for the bluray release, watching it at 0dB would result in it being too loud. When watching a movie encoded in a Dolby format, this isn’t an issue, dialnorm adjusts the relative average gain to -27dBfs, which maintains the dialogue at around 75dB and the average volume at 85dB, the way it’s supposed to be when played back a 0dB, some DTS mixes might be a little hotter because the mixer bumped the average volume and dialogue up without lowering the relative gain, there’s a few I’ve watched where the dialogue will be at shouting levels played back at 0dB, since there’s no dialnorm with DTS.

I also definitely was saying the movies remixed for bluray are not mixed in a room calibrated to 85dB and a standard xcurve (-3dB/octave at 2khz). Dolby specifically states that smaller rooms should calibrate to lower levels and use a modified xcurve. A 5000cu ft room, for example, would be calibrated to 82dB and equalized to the modified xcurve, which would display a falling response of -1.5dB an octave beginning at 2khz on an rta. An even smaller room (1000cu ft or less) would be calibrated to 79dB and no xcurve.

I disagree with thx on re-eq because the xcurve is not an eq curve, it’s a room response compensation. Audyssey got it right with their reference curve that slopes about 2dB/octave beginning at 4khz, that’s pretty close to the modified xcurve.

The whole point of this is that by calibrating this way, you ensure that the mix translates from room to room. If you doubt that an 82dB calibration isn’t used for smaller rooms, head over to avid or Gearslutz and do a search for room calibration levels in small rooms, you’ll find those who mix in smaller rooms do not mix at 85dB because it translates to a weak mix that too quiet and lacks dynamics on a theatrical dub stage, whereas a 79-82dB cal translates just fine.

If you’re seated 13’ or greater from the front channels, 85dB would probably sound fine, but at shorter distances, it may sound too loud.



http://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-avs-foruma-podcasts/2031281-mastering-movie-audio-home.html

 

[yepimonfire]

I am just wondering that if you increase volume to hear dialogue, background music would also increase drowning out the dialogue, again.

No, because the ear compresses dynamic range at higher volumes. That’s one of the reasons the fletcher Munson loudness curve flattens out at 85dB and above.

 

[mtrycrafts]

No, because the ear compresses dynamic range at higher volumes. That’s one of the reasons the fletcher Munson loudness curve flattens out at 85dB and above.

This is at Hyper Physics. Fletcher is very similar. 110Hz to 1kHz seems to be relatively flat.Below that it seems to be rising as the lower ones. Even at 120dB.