What to do if I can't get a dedicated circuit?

[jjminch]

So my theater will be in the upstairs of my new house. When I was on leave I went and ran on the speaker cabling and starting getting the media closet ready. The previous owner was kind enough to have an outlet put in the closet.

Here is what I will be running:

Crown XLS 402D for mains
Dayton HTS1000, I think thats the model number for the sub amp
Onkyo 707
Xbox 360
Projector
Wii
Laptop
Router
Blu Ray or PS3
Cable Box
Router
DVD Changer
Probably a few other small things I'm forgetting

Speakers are Jed Kunz's Clearwave Audio Dynamic 2T series, a 5.1 setup with a zone 2 later.

So onto the question, I don't listen to anything at blinding levels. When I was home I ran everything without the crown amp and it seemed to be plenty powerful enough. Then again I didn't have everything feeding off this sole outlet and not everything listed above was hooked up.

I talked to an electrician and he doesn't think it is possible to put another circuit in there. It is upstairs and on the opposite side of the house from the breaker box. The existing circuit is also being used in another 2 rooms, although with nothing that has a significant power draw.

Any suggestions on a solution for adding a circuit? If I can't get this done for a reasonable cost, will turning everything on in sequence be better? What about even connecting the components, amplifiers are supposed to be plugged directly into the wall, I will need a recommendation on a heavy duty power strip to use.

Ideally it would be rack mountable, I did find this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripp-Lite-IBR-12-Surge-Protectors-rack-mount-/260645734857

In case anyone is interested, here is the rack I just picked up. Saw it on AVS and got good reviews. Royal PITA to order from though.
http://us.startech.com/product/RK4320AV-43USpace-19-Knock-Down-AV-Rack

 

[TLS Guy]

So my theater will be in the upstairs of my new house. When I was on leave I went and ran on the speaker cabling and starting getting the media closet ready. The previous owner was kind enough to have an outlet put in the closet.

Here is what I will be running:

Crown XLS 402D for mains
Dayton HTS1000, I think thats the model number for the sub amp
Onkyo 707
Xbox 360
Projector
Wii
Laptop
Router
Blu Ray or PS3
Cable Box
Router
DVD Changer
Probably a few other small things I'm forgetting

Speakers are Jed Kunz's Clearwave Audio Dynamic 2T series, a 5.1 setup with a zone 2 later.

So onto the question, I don't listen to anything at blinding levels. When I was home I ran everything without the crown amp and it seemed to be plenty powerful enough. Then again I didn't have everything feeding off this sole outlet and not everything listed above was hooked up.

I talked to an electrician and he doesn't think it is possible to put another circuit in there. It is upstairs and on the opposite side of the house from the breaker box. The existing circuit is also being used in another 2 rooms, although with nothing that has a significant power draw.

Any suggestions on a solution for adding a circuit? If I can't get this done for a reasonable cost, will turning everything on in sequence be better? What about even connecting the components, amplifiers are supposed to be plugged directly into the wall, I will need a recommendation on a heavy duty power strip to use.

Ideally it would be rack mountable, I did find this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripp-Lite-IBR-12-Surge-Protectors-rack-mount-/260645734857

In case anyone is interested, here is the rack I just picked up. Saw it on AVS and got good reviews. Royal PITA to order from though.
http://us.startech.com/product/RK4320AV-43USpace-19-Knock-Down-AV-Rack

Is any lighting running on that circuit? In most homes light often do run off wall outlet circuits. If it does you will have to run a dedicated circuit even if it means running conduit on the outside of the house and through the the outside wall.

Be careful not to run everything at once. I suspect you are in for a headache here. Add up the power consumption of all your units. Add up the max power consumption of amps and subs.

 

[Rickster71]

Do you have a basement or an attic? What was the electrician's reason for not adding the circuit?
Anything is possible; we just may not want to spend what it takes to get there.

It will really depend on what else is on that circuit. You may not have a problem if you don't listen as extreme levels, and no big ampacity needs from other things on that circuit.

 

[highfigh]

I talked to an electrician and he doesn't think it is possible to put another circuit in there. It is upstairs and on the opposite side of the house from the breaker box. The existing circuit is also being used in another 2 rooms, although with nothing that has a significant power draw.

Any suggestions on a solution for adding a circuit? If I can't get this done for a reasonable cost, will turning everything on in sequence be better? What about even connecting the components, amplifiers are supposed to be plugged directly into the wall, I will need a recommendation on a heavy duty power strip to use.

I don't know where you are but the NEC doesn't allow using one circuit in more than one room, AFAIK. How old is this house?

If you determine exactly which receptacles and lights are on this circuit, you'll be able to select where things are plugged in and when they'll be able to operate. This means no dimmers on the circuit, no toasters/microwave ovens, electric space heaters or anything else with a motor.

 

[jjminch]

Thanks for all the replies.

This is a two year old (or around that age) house in AZ, built on a slab so no basement but I have a pretty nice attic.

Lighting is on the circuit, no dimmers, but a hallway light or two and a ceiling fan IIRC. Definitely no appliances, space heaters, or anything of that nature. Worst could be a treadmill but that won't be used while the stereo is going. Why is lighting such a big deal if I may ask? I may want to do lighting at a later time, so I take it that would be a second circuit that I would need, for dimmed theater lighting?

As for the electrician, I'd imagine the reason was he didn't want to deal with the headache. I'm in Afghanistan at the moment, I'm trying to get what I can sorted for when I'm stateside. When you only have a few weeks a year that you are home, you don't get much done.

I would really hate the look, but the conduit is a possibility for the exterior. I just asked for an interior run for appearances and the guy kind of scoffed at the idea. I suppose since it will be on the non-visible side of the house, we could just run it up to the attic and cross across the house through there. Might as well put in two circuits if I'm going through the trouble.

How much can a 15amp circuit take amps-wise? I'll look at doing the calculation later on.

 

[darien87]

Speakers are Jed Kunz's Clearwave Audio Dynamic 2T series, a 5.1 setup with a zone 2 later.

Sorry I can't help you with your electrical question. We just bought a house that was new construction so I was able to have them put two 20amp circuits in my living room.

But I am curious to hear your impressions of the Dynamic 2T's. I was looking at those a little while ago, but finances got in the way.

 

[Rickster71]

The trick is to get a circuit (or two) from the panel to the attic, then to your listening area.
If you really want a new circuit and willing to pay for it, an experienced electrician can do it.
It just may not be the perfect retrofit; meaning some drywall patching, maybe some exposed conduit, and labor expense.

The other alternative is to try the existing circuit in your normal listening scenario and see if it trips the breaker.

 

[Warpdrv]

I'm in Afghanistan at the moment, I'm trying to get what I can sorted for when I'm stateside. When you only have a few weeks a year that you are home, you don't get much done.

Thank you for your service !!!!!

 

[jjminch]

My 2T build is on the left side of the gallery, best looking ones in my opinion.

http://www.clearwaveloudspeaker.com/Gallery.html

I'm fairly young and haven't been into high-level audio for years. So I can't compare them to maggies or something like that. I will say that I heard things in songs that I've never heard before and realized that Mp3s were no longer going to cut it quality wise. They are surprisingly efficient with the Onk 707 in 2.2 mode when listening to music. Extremely clear even at very high levels. Plus Jed is a cool dude to deal with.

I might try to see if I trip the breaker before I spend the money, but have another question. Is it allowed, as in "electrical code" wise, to maybe run a second outlet from another circuit upstairs into the closet? I have 5 bedrooms up there so there are 3 circuits total I think If I could split the two amps on different circuits, forgo any dimmed theater lighting, then I would probably be ok.

 

[Rickster71]

I might try to see if I trip the breaker before I spend the money, but have another question. Is it allowed, as in "electrical code" wise, to maybe run a second outlet from another circuit upstairs into the closet? I have 5 bedrooms up there so there are 3 circuits total I think If I could split the two amps on different circuits, forgo any dimmed theater lighting, then I would probably be ok.

That can be done, with the caveat of needing to know what else is on that circuit; ampacity wise and with electrical noise considerations.
The problem is one that I've had with the electrical code for many years: It's the way they've classified the definition of a bedroom, and have never updated it.
Our modern bedrooms have TV's, computers, make-up mirrors, and 1800 watt blow-dryers, treadmills, etc.
Good Luck and be safe out there!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for all the replies.

This is a two year old (or around that age) house in AZ, built on a slab so no basement but I have a pretty nice attic.

Lighting is on the circuit, no dimmers, but a hallway light or two and a ceiling fan IIRC. Definitely no appliances, space heaters, or anything of that nature. Worst could be a treadmill but that won't be used while the stereo is going. Why is lighting such a big deal if I may ask? I may want to do lighting at a later time, so I take it that would be a second circuit that I would need, for dimmed theater lighting?

As for the electrician, I'd imagine the reason was he didn't want to deal with the headache. I'm in Afghanistan at the moment, I'm trying to get what I can sorted for when I'm stateside. When you only have a few weeks a year that you are home, you don't get much done.

I would really hate the look, but the conduit is a possibility for the exterior. I just asked for an interior run for appearances and the guy kind of scoffed at the idea. I suppose since it will be on the non-visible side of the house, we could just run it up to the attic and cross across the house through there. Might as well put in two circuits if I'm going through the trouble.

How much can a 15amp circuit take amps-wise? I'll look at doing the calculation later on.

A 15A breaker can take 12A continuously.
Check out my link and see all that I have on a 15A breaker that has a 12ga wire to the outlet including that projector. I have no problems what so ever.
The audio part draws roughly 4A when on. Any large dynamics are seconds and not even close to maxing the breaker. On start up when the caps in the amps need charging does exceed the 15A for a flash but doesn't throw the breaker.
If you don't operate the other stuff on that circuit, I don't see any problems.

 

[Rickster71]

A 15A breaker can take 12A continuously.

This statement is easy to misunderstand. Allow me to add a bit.

The Code requires a circuit to be de-rated to 80% ampacity when it's installed.
The 80% de-rating factor is only for known loads that run continuously, which is considered to be 3 hours or more. Otherwise a circuit can be loaded 100%.
This also only pertains to known loads; since it isn't possible to predict what a homeowner will plug into a receptacle circuit.

There are few, if any, 'Continuous Loads' in a residential application. Those loads are most often found in a Commercial / Industrial setting.
A 15A breaker can operate at full ampacity for under three hours and be considered a non-continuous load.

 

[mtrycrafts]

This statement is easy to misunderstand. Allow me to add a bit.

The Code requires a circuit to be de-rated to 80% ampacity when it's installed.
The 80% de-rating factor is only for known loads that run continuously, which is considered to be 3 hours or more. Otherwise a circuit can be loaded 100%.
This also only pertains to known loads; since it isn't possible to predict what a homeowner will plug into a receptacle circuit.

There are few, if any, 'Continuous Loads' in a residential application. Those loads are most often found in a Commercial / Industrial setting.
A 15A breaker can operate at full ampacity for under three hours and be considered a non-continuous load.

Thanks.
This is even better for him.
He should not have a problem

 

[GO-NAD!]

A 15A breaker can take 12A continuously.
Check out my link and see all that I have on a 15A breaker that has a 12ga wire to the outlet including that projector. I have no problems what so ever.
The audio part draws roughly 4A when on. Any large dynamics are seconds and not even close to maxing the breaker. On start up when the caps in the amps need charging does exceed the 15A for a flash but doesn't throw the breaker.
If you don't operate the other stuff on that circuit, I don't see any problems.

I don't know if it's the same where you are, but where I live, 12AWG wire is permitted for a 20 amp circuit. If it's the same for you guys, the 15a outlet and breaker could be swapped out for 20amp versions.

jjminch, you could get one of these:

http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

Then you can determine how much load you're putting on that outlet.

What kind of bulbs are in the light fixtures? If they're incandescents, you could try CFL bulbs and save a few watts, although I don't know if they would induce hum on the circuit. Or, you could try LED bulbs, but those are pretty expensive right now.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't know if it's the same where you are, but where I live, 12AWG wire is permitted for a 20 amp circuit. If it's the same for you guys, the 15a outlet and breaker could be swapped out for 20amp versions.

...

Yes, this would be allowed here.I'd have to double check to see if both outlets on that breaker have the 12g or just the 1st outlet, the home run outlet. But, for me, right now, the 15A is working just fine, no trips with any of the demand I put on it so far.