What receiver for multi-room setup?

[infiltrator7]

Hi guys, I'm putting in wall speakers in my house in a few weeks, and I want to know what I should get. Here's my prospective setup:

-Music Server hooked up to Roku Soundbridge with Optical out to receiver.
-2 Pairs (4 speakers) in wall speakers hooked up to main receiver.
-1 Pair bookshelf speakers hooked up to either main receiver or an old stereo reciever I have.

My question is, what type of receiver should i get, and is my plan that I have set up right now even going to work?

 

[Gimpy Ric]

To drive six speakers at once, you need to pay attention to the "load" your placing an your amplifier. When I lived in Florida, my entire house was wired for AV during construction by a pro, and we used a Niles Audio four pair speaker switch to keep the impedance around 8 ohms. Look here:

http://www.nilesaudio.com

Hope this helps!

 

[infiltrator7]

Thanks for your suggestion, however their site isn't working for me unfortunately. I have a feeling that they will be a bit out of my budget though; we're doing this as a small remodeling project and just figured that since we're redoing this section of the house we might as well add in-wall speakers and wire most of the first floor. All in all, I think the budget is around $300 for the receiver and then $250 for the speakers. I'm looking for something that works and sounds decent, it's not a home theater so I'm not looking for miracles.

 

[MDS]

If the 4 in-wall speakers are one set of speakers and the additional bookshelves are the second set, then any receiver with Zone 2 functionality will do what you need.

Now if the idea is 3 sets of two speakers (one set of two in each of three different rooms) then you will need a speaker selector like Ric mentioned unless you are willing to make a small compromise.

You can forgo the speaker selector and use impedance matching volume controls to control two of the pairs. You'd have 4 of the speakers hooked up in parallel to Zone 1 speaker terminals of the receiver (with IM volume controls between the receiver and each pair) and the third pair hooked up to the Zone 2 terminals of the receiver. The compromise is that the two pair using volume controls will play the same source; the second zone could play a different source.

 

[OttoMatic]

Hi there,

I think something like the Denon AVR-587 might work ($299 list price). It can assign its channels six and seven to power Zone 2.

Most of these receivers also have a "party mode" or "multi-channel stereo" mode where the signal is simply copied to all speaker outputs, and not processed as any type of surround mode. Depending on your listening needs, you may be able to use this to run each speaker through its own amp. This will help you get around an impedance matching speaker selector if the load presented to the amplifier is too low.

I am using a relatively inexpensive pair of 6.5" two-way ceiling speakers that I got on eBay for something like $70. These are in my family room and really only serve at rather quiet levels for background music. If you're going for something like that, and not audiophile-grade sound quality in this type of application, there are lots of options out there. I don't have any specific names, but just look around for something that seems reasonable. Recently, I have seen similar in-wall and in-ceiling speakers at Lowe's and Home Depot for <$100, and these might fit your needs. Of course, these stores have liberal return policies, so if the speaker sucks, you can return it and you're out nothing.

Quick note -- I only mentioned the Denon because I've had decent luck with them in the past and their website well describes their products. I don't sell them or work for them. Yamaha, Onkyo and friends all make similar products, I'm sure.

Good luck!

 

[infiltrator7]

Well, I'm planning on doing at least 3 pairs of speakers. I'd like for the different zones to play different things, but it's not an absolute necessity. What's my best option, the Denon receiver otto mentioned with impedance controls in each room?

 

[OttoMatic]

Hi infiltrator7,

Do you want to be able to play different program material (and different volumes) in two different zones, or three? I think most receivers in this price range will do two zones, but it'll proabably bump you up in cost quite a bit to get three zones...

 

[infiltrator7]

Hi infiltrator7,

Do you want to be able to play different program material (and different volumes) in two different zones, or three? I think most receivers in this price range will do two zones, but it'll proabably bump you up in cost quite a bit to get three zones...

I'd like to be able to play different input sources in different rooms (with different volumes) but like you said it seems like within my budget I can only do two different zones. That's ok though, I'll have 2 pairs on one zone, and the third pair on another. For the volume, can't I install those impedence switches to control the volume?

Also, I have an old stereo receiver which could be put to use, is there any way that I could possibly make this a zone 3 by using the pre-amp out, or is this not a good idea?

 

[OttoMatic]

I'd like to be able to play different input sources in different rooms (with different volumes) but like you said it seems like within my budget I can only do two different zones. That's ok though, I'll have 2 pairs on one zone, and the third pair on another. For the volume, can't I install those impedence switches to control the volume?

You can use the volume switches if you like, but you will also be able to control volume via the receiver itself (for both zones, independently). I don't think you will have any impedance issues that will bother the amplifier, especially if you run the two pairs in one room as "multi-channel stereo".

Also, I have an old stereo receiver which could be put to use, is there any way that I could possibly make this a zone 3 by using the pre-amp out, or is this not a good idea?

In that case, you would still end up playing the same program material as the "main" zone, as the preamp outputs would be the same signal. Since that receiver only has switching for two zones, I think you'd only ever be able to play two independent program materials at the same time. Using another receiver could give you control over your volume if that helps at all. Also, if you really want to be able to switch three zones, you could connect all your inputs to that receiver (using Y-splitters on all analog sources) and then use it as a selector as well. Then you have three zones: main zone and zone 2 of the new receiver, as well as the old receiver.

Another note -- the preamps that I've played with for multi-zone usage require that the second zone use an analog input. They simply don't have DACs on that second zone. Keep that in mind as your connection plan comes together; you won't be able to use a digital input and get any audio out on zone 2.

 

[infiltrator7]

Basically, my biggest concern in multi-room, not necessarily multi-zone, so two zones should be sufficient. I also want the ability for both zones to play the same input, this should be possible, right?

Ok, I think this is what I'm going to do:

I was looking around, and the model above the Denon that you recommended, the Denon AVR-687, is only around $300, so I might as well get that one.
Hook up my music server via the "Optical In" port, along with a CD player in another port.
Hook up the two pairs of In wall Speakers to the "A and B" ports on the Denon. (They will still be able to play the same source at the same time, correct?)
Hook up the third pair in the other room to the "Zone 2". (Will I still be able to play the same music that is being played in Zone 1 through Zone 2 if I want to?)
Possibly add volume controls in each room.

If I ever choose to add a fourth pair, would you guys recommend that I use a speaker selector and split the Zone 2 signal? I realize that i will only be able to play Zone 2 through those speakers.

Also, you said I shouldn't have to worry about the impedance load?

 

[OttoMatic]

Basically, my biggest concern in multi-room, not necessarily multi-zone, so two zones should be sufficient. I also want the ability for both zones to play the same input, this should be possible, right?

Yep, same thing at the same time will work fine (and you will be able to adjust volume between Zone 1 and Zone 2).

Hook up my music server via the "Optical In" port, along with a CD player in another port.

I think you'll also have to hook them up with an analog connection if you want them to play in Zone 2.

Hook up the two pairs of In wall Speakers to the "A and B" ports on the Denon. (They will still be able to play the same source at the same time, correct?)

Yeah, the A and B will play the same thing at the same time at the same volume. However, there may or may not be A and B on that receiver. If not you can hook them up to the "Surround" channels and set the receiver's mode to "party mode" or "multi-channel stereo". In that mode, it will play pretty much the same material on the "Surround" channels as the "Main" channels. Check out the owner's manual on line for the details of those modes (I'm assuming they have it; I have it on my old Denon as well as newer preamps -- it seems like a somewhat basic mode these days). Connecting to the "Surround" channels will also take care of any concerns with impedances causing trouble at the receiver.

If that doesn't work, and there are no B jacks on the receiver, you can always hook them up in parallel (basically, just hook both pairs of speakers to the same terminals). This can cause problems if the impedance of the speakers is too low to begin with. I'd look for speakers that are 8 ohms, as they will present a 4 ohm load when connected in parallel. If you are not playing at loud volumes, you will almost certainly be OK with a total 4 ohm load. If you start to strain the amp, there could be problems. All that said, I've run lots of receivers with 4 ohm loads and never had a problem until they start to run out of steam.

Hook up the third pair in the other room to the "Zone 2". (Will I still be able to play the same music that is being played in Zone 1 through Zone 2 if I want to?)

Yep, will be able to select any input to be directed to Zone 1. You will be able to select any analog input to be directed to Zone 2. If you want to listen to the Roku in both rooms, you will need to connect it with a minimum of its analog connections (for the Zone 2 connection). If you want, you can also connect it with an digital cable, but that will be only available to Zone 1.

Possibly add volume controls in each room.

Nothing wrong with that.

If I ever choose to add a fourth pair, would you guys recommend that I use a speaker selector and split the Zone 2 signal? I realize that i will only be able to play Zone 2 through those speakers.

That would be one way to do it. Again, I'm usually OK with running speakers in parallel, so I would at least try to just hook another pair to the Zone 2 speaker level output. Also, and I'm not sure about this (check the manual), there may be a way to output a Zone 2 line-level signal to another power source (your other, old receiver, for example). You would then hook that fourth pair of speakers to that receiver.

Also, you said I shouldn't have to worry about the impedance load?

As described above. How loud do you think you'll be using this setup? If you're going to be pushing it, I'd have more reservations.

 

[infiltrator7]

As described above. How loud do you think you'll be using this setup? If you're going to be pushing it, I'd have more reservations.

I think I'm going to mostly use this for background music most of the time, but there will be times when it will be fairly loud, nothing earth-shattering though.

I checked the Denon manual, and it appears that there IS a Speaker A and a Speaker B input. So for now my two in-wall pairs would be connected to that, with Zone two being either my other pair of bookshelf or a speaker selector eventually. I didn't see anything about that Line-level out in the manual, but I could be missing something.

So if I were to add a speaker selector splitter in the future, most of these already have built in impedance controls, so impedance shouldn't be an issue, right?

Also, in the Denon manual, it says under the "Speaker Impedance" heading for "Front A,B; surround (zone 2)- 6-16ohms", and for "Front A+B, 12-16ohms". Does this mean that I should get speakers within that range? I'm currently considering some JBL in wall speakers that have an impedance of 8ohms.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I'm new to all of this stuff so thanks for bearing with me!

 

[MDS]

Using the A+B terminals presents the same impedance problem you'd be avoiding with IM volume controls or a speaker selector. The Denon recommends 12-16 Ohms because A+B puts the speakers in parallel and two 12 Ohm speakers would present a 6 Ohm load that it can handle.

 

[OttoMatic]

Using the A+B terminals presents the same impedance problem you'd be avoiding with IM volume controls or a speaker selector. The Denon recommends 12-16 Ohms because A+B puts the speakers in parallel and two 12 Ohm speakers would present a 6 Ohm load that it can handle.

This is pretty much right -- the A+B stuff will put them in parallel on that "front" channel amps. You can fix this with the impedance matching volume control, using the surround amplifiers for one pair of speakers (and then using "multi-channel stereo" mode, or by buying 12 to 16 ohm speakers. The thing is, I'm not sure where you'll find those speakers. Most home speakers are in the 4 to 8 ohm range. Personally, I'd just ignore it and hook up a pair of 8 ohm speakers. I've done this forever, and as long as you don't expect to test the limits of the receiver, you'll be fine. I ran Maggies on an old Denon receiver, and aside from running out of steam at high volumes, I never had a problem. Also ran other pairs of 8 ohm speakers in parallel from one channel and never had a problem. I do understand the limitations of the receiver, the amps, the power supply, and I also believe that running it at "reasonable" levels you'll be OK. Also, I believe that the receiver will shut down or go into "protect" mode if there's a problem with the amount of power demanded from it -- well before any damage occurs.

6 to 16 ohms on the Zone 2 is normal and the 8 ohm JBLs will be fine.

 

[jcPanny]

Yamaha RX-V659

The Yamaha RX-V659 (<$300) has the "Powered Zone 2" feature and will allow you to run 5.1 in the main HT and 2 remote speakers. With the "Zone 2" you can play a different source in the main HT and the remote room. Any receiver with 7 channels will have a "7 channel stereo" mode and allow you to play the same source on all 6-7 speakers.

I recently finished a 5-room distributed audio system and had good results with some inexpensive phoenix gold ATc6 and ATc6DM inceiling speakers and VMT-100 volume controls. PM me for more details.

 

[infiltrator7]

The Yamaha RX-V659 (<$300) has the "Powered Zone 2" feature and will allow you to run 5.1 in the main HT and 2 remote speakers. With the "Zone 2" you can play a different source in the main HT and the remote room. Any receiver with 7 channels will have a "7 channel stereo" mode and allow you to play the same source on all 6-7 speakers.

I recently finished a 5-room distributed audio system and had good results with some inexpensive phoenix gold ATc6 and ATc6DM inceiling speakers and VMT-100 volume controls. PM me for more details.

I think I might send you a PM. I've been considering those Pheonix Gold speakers from circuit city, and they seem like a pretty good deal. I don't really care about the 5.1 in the main room since this receiver won't be hooked up to a TV, but thanks for the Yamaha suggestion, that's another receiver I'll look into.