What makes receivers sound different?

[Matt85]

I have a question in regards to sound quality comparisons of receivers.

I'm curious to know if any major differences in sound are noticable between receivers if they are applying the least amount of processing to the signal. (i.e "straight" or "direct" modes)

Basically, I am wondering this because I have a yamaha 663, and have heard great things about Harman Kardon receiver's sound quality. And I am wondering if a difference would be noticable between the Yamaha and HK if both receivers are using the least amount of circuitry to process a signal.

I'd like to try out HK, but would like to spare myself the hassle of setting up another receiver if I won't notice a difference...

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Matt

 

[bandphan]

There shouldnt be any difference in sound. Receivers shouldnt "color" sound.

 

[fmw]

What makes them sound different is the room in which they are located. The AVR's have a setup and EQ program designed, supposedly, to compensate for room modes and reflectivity. So an AVR will sound different based on the EQ program with which it is equipped and the room that EQ program has to deal with.

 

[Adam]

Matt, I think that this thread from last month will also be helpful to you. A lot of the posts go into answering your question.

 

[ivseenbetter]

This is a good question. All the time I have spent on here and I never thought to ask this.

So, fmw, what you are saying is that the reason the more expensive receivers cost more is because they have better EQs equiped? Or, are these EQs calibrated differently by different manufacturers?

 

[Seth=L]

This is a good question. All the time I have spent on here and I never thought to ask this.

So, fmw, what you are saying is that the reason the more expensive receivers cost more is because they have better EQs equiped? Or, are these EQs calibrated differently by different manufacturers?

Read Mtrycrafts and Adrianmills' posts for the closest answer.

 

[chadnliz]

There shouldnt be any difference in sound. Receivers shouldnt "color" sound.

Yea right! A $300 unit should sound the same as a $2000 unit.

There are the amps, DACS, wires, electrical, isolation, volume pots, quality of ever little resistor, circuit board and every other item inside a unit. When you build a unit for the lowest possible cost it isnt going to sound as good as a unit where thought, tolerances and research has been placed aboive lowest possible cost so "direct" or any other form of bypass can sound vastly differnt.

 

[fmw]

This is a good question. All the time I have spent on here and I never thought to ask this.

So, fmw, what you are saying is that the reason the more expensive receivers cost more is because they have better EQs equiped? Or, are these EQs calibrated differently by different manufacturers?

No, no. You won't catch me equating sonics to price. More expensive receivers are more expensive primarily because they have more margin for the manufacturer. That margin is usually explained by the manufacturers with things like additional features, more amplifier power, more connectivity etc. It wouldn't have anything at all to do with sonics.

Modern receiver amplifiers don't alter the sound waves audibly and the EQ is both adjustable and defeatable.

 

[fmw]

Yea right! A $300 unit should sound the same as a $2000 unit.

There are the amps, DACS, wires, electrical, isolation, volume pots, quality of ever little resistor, circuit board and every other item inside a unit. When you build a unit for the lowest possible cost it isnt going to sound as good as a unit where thought, tolerances and research has been placed aboive lowest possible cost so "direct" or any other form of bypass can sound vastly differnt.

Actually they should sound the same as long as the EQ is defeated and as long as neither unit is being stressed in use. Price and sonics have virtually nothing to do with each other in amplifiers (or DAC's for that matter.)

 

[chadnliz]

If you think a $299 Yamaha unit in Direct mode is going to sound the same as a Integra, Lexicon, Rotel, hi end models from Denon, and any number of other companies that are in direct mode than you are lost and its no use in argueing. If you feel I am wrong then so be it but you would have a hard time keeping a straight face claiming that a unit made for the entry level consumer at the lowest possible cost is going to sound the same as a reference product where carful attention has been given to every last part and its execution, Diect is a bypass of certain signal paths in any given reciever or pre amp, its overall sound quality is still going to have its own sonic signature on any unit and some are going to be better than others.

 

[croseiv]

It always amazes me how people react to this topic.

 

[Adam]

It always amazes me how people react to this topic.

You mean that you haven't gotten used to the periodic 13-rounds that people here go through on this? I thought that you'd be desensitized by now.

 

[Matt34]

I have a question in regards to sound quality comparisons of receivers.

I'm curious to know if any major differences in sound are noticable between receivers if they are applying the least amount of processing to the signal. (i.e "straight" or "direct" modes)

Basically, I am wondering this because I have a yamaha 663, and have heard great things about Harman Kardon receiver's sound quality. And I am wondering if a difference would be noticable between the Yamaha and HK if both receivers are using the least amount of circuitry to process a signal.

I'd like to try out HK, but would like to spare myself the hassle of setting up another receiver if I won't notice a difference...

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Matt

To quote AdrianMills in the previously linked post....

I've yet to read of anyone that can tell the difference in sound between any two receivers in a blind test no matter what the price difference. This is assuming that any EQ, parameteric or otherwise is turned off, they are level matched and they aren't clipping.

People should choose receivers based on power requirements and features.

If someone can show verifiable proof stating otherwise, I'm all ears.

 

[Matt85]

Lots of great input in this thread... Thank you.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yea right! A $300 unit should sound the same as a $2000 unit.

There are the amps, DACS, wires, electrical, isolation, volume pots, quality of ever little resistor, circuit board and every other item inside a unit. When you build a unit for the lowest possible cost it isnt going to sound as good as a unit where thought, tolerances and research has been placed aboive lowest possible cost so "direct" or any other form of bypass can sound vastly differnt.

Well, actually, it can sound the same, audibly not different
But, your $2000 was a bit low since it can also sound the same compared to $15k amps as well
Just read post 5
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/browse_frm/thread/664b8681ab141263?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rnum=1&prev=/groups?q=sunshine+stereo+yamaha+abx+nousaine&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=501fl6%24ac3%40oxy.rust.net&rnum=1

3 golden ears could not tell

 

[mtrycrafts]

If you think a $299 Yamaha unit in Direct mode is going to sound the same as a Integra, Lexicon, Rotel, hi end models from Denon, and any number of other companies that are in direct mode than you are lost and its no use in argueing. .

Or, as per my above post, you just cannot handle the truth?
That was a $300 Yam integrated against a $15k pair of mono blocks.
Just don't shoot the messenger And, there is nothing to argue. Facts speak for themselves.

 

[mtrycrafts]

..., I'm all ears.

Yes, but the eyes can tell the difference

 

[PENG]

Or, as per my above post, you just cannot handle the truth?
That was a $300 Yam integrated against a $15k pair of mono blocks.
Just don't shoot the messenger And, there is nothing to argue. Facts speak for themselves.

Following his logic, may be a pair of $10,000 speaker cables can make that $2000 receiver sound even better.

 

[Geno]

This topic is pretty tiresome, chad. There have been countless double-blind tests throughout the years that have invariably embarrassed the "golden ears" crowd. As has been stated here previously, amplifiers, if compently designed and operated within their specs, will be indistinguishable from each other.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Following his logic, may be a pair of $10,000 speaker cables can make that $2000 receiver sound even better.

That's only $12k, still short of that $15k point
Now, there are speaker cables for $30k. Some even use those in pairs to bi-wire their speakers.