What do you think about the B+W 705 S2?

[Good4it]

Are they worth $2500? Anyone heard them?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You should make it a poll.

Then people could vote.

 

[KenM10759]

And the vote would mean little.

My own ears are different from everyone else's and I like different things than many. For instance, I would like LEF LS50 Wireless better for $300 less because I think they sound better and I get 200+30 watt amps, a DAC and a DSP for the money.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Are they worth $2500? Anyone heard them?

Yes.

In my view they're up there with the best stand mounts at any price. What you get is very low distortion / high resolution and excellent imaging. They are slightly on the bright side but the treble is so clean that it's not objectionable unless the recording itself is very bright. Bass is surprisingly extended and dynamic too.

 

[speakerman39]

There is a lot of stiff competition in the $2K plus range. I personally would love to own a set of the B&W 705 S2's, but at $2.5K they are a bit expensive for my tastes. I would rather opt for the Philharmonic BMR's myself and be done with it.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

B&W does have great resale value if you should want to sell them later.

In terms of the salient on-axis and off-axis, the 705 looks pretty good - appears to be about +/- 2dB from 100Hz-20kHz and the off-axis looks pretty decent. I would say the on-axis and off-axis of the 705 look much better than all the Diamond speakers - 800D, 802D, 803D, 805D.

If they sound good to you, then I suppose it is worth it.

To me, they are not worth buying unless you can buy it for under $1,500.

I don't think much about any bookshelf speakers from any brand unless the bookshelf speaker is like 30" tall and 15" wide and 22" deep.

If not, then just keep the price under $1,500 per pair of bookshelf.

 

[speakerman39]

Yes.

In my view they're up there with the best stand mounts at any price. What you get is very low distortion / high resolution and excellent imaging. They are slightly on the bright side but the treble is so clean that it's not objectionable unless the recording itself is very bright. Bass is surprisingly extended and dynamic too.

Art, I am NOT surprised that the low end is superb. I owned a set of CM1 S1's and the low end was the most impressive I have ever owned on a bookshelf/standmount loudspeaker. Of course, the new 700 Series is said to be quite a few levels above the CM2 Series. As mentioned, the B&W speakers have very impressive resale values. To many, the 705 S2's would be worth the $2.5K price. Honestly, I would love to own a set myself.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Art Vandelay]

Art, I am NOT surprised that the low end is superb. I owned a set of CM1 S1's and the low end was the most impressive I have ever owned on a bookshelf/standmount loudspeaker. Of course, the new 700 Series is said to be quite a few level above the CM2 Series. As mentioned, the B&W speakers have very impressive resale values. To many, the 705 S2's would be worth the $2.5K price. Honestly, I would love to own a set myself.


Cheers,

Phil

Hi Phil, yes much better than the CM1's, for sure.

I listened to them at some length in the listening room of a Soundstage reviewer, and was able to compare with Thiel CS3.7's, and the 705S2's outclassed them quite convincingly. To say that they exceeded my expectations is an understatement.

The 705S2's are one of those rare speakers that you can't quite get enough of. I haven't seen measurements but the mid-treble transition is the best I've heard from B&W, and unlike many 2-way monitors they don't sound slightly compressed or muddled at realistic levels, even in the bass, which is remarkable. The price is on the high side but I guess some of that pays for the extensive R&D that's responsible for the very high quality of the drive units. Obviously, there are many great standmounts to choose from these days in a more affordable category. Some of them might come close to or even equal the B&W's in some areas of performance, and some probably even have better looking on-axis measurements too, but I would be very surprised if any are as good overall or as inviting to listen to.

 

[shadyJ]

Unless I had the chance to audition one extensively -against other speakers- I would want to see serious third party measurements before taking the plunge on such a pricey set of bookshelf speakers. There are outstanding proven alternatives from RBH, Kef, Revel, among others.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

B&W does have great resale value if you should want to sell them later.

In terms of the salient on-axis and off-axis, the 705 looks pretty good - appears to be about +/- 3dB from 100Hz-20kHz and the off-axis looks pretty decent. I would say the on-axis and off-axis of the 705 look much better than all the Diamond speakers - 800D, 802D, 803D, 805D.

If they sound good to you, then I suppose it is worth it.

To me, they are not worth buying unless you can buy it for under $1,500.

I don't think much about any bookshelf speakers from any brand unless the bookshelf speaker is like 30" tall and 15" wide and 22" deep.

If not, then just keep the price under $1,500 per pair of bookshelf.

What's the source of the measurements you're quoting? Thanks

 

[Art Vandelay]

Fwiw, measurements of the original 705, released 14 years ago.

 

[speakerman39]

Hi Phil, yes much better than the CM1's, for sure.

I listened to them at some length in the listening room of a Soundstage reviewer, and was able to compare with Thiel CS3.7's, and the 705S2's outclassed them quite convincingly. To say that they exceeded my expectations is an understatement.

The 705S2's are one of those rare speakers that you can't quite get enough of. I haven't seen measurements but the mid-treble transition is the best I've heard from B&W, and unlike many 2-way monitors they don't sound slightly compressed or muddled at realistic levels, even in the bass, which is remarkable. The price is on the high side but I guess some of that pays for the extensive R&D that's responsible for the very high quality of the drive units. Obviously, there are many great standmounts to choose from these days in a more affordable category. Some of them might come close to or even equal the B&W's in some areas of performance, and some probably even have better looking on-axis measurements too, but I would be very surprised if any are as good overall or as inviting to listen to.

Oh I am sure that the 705 S2's are splendid no doubt. Hence, I was amazed with my CM1 S1's. As you mention, the CM1's are merely not even in the same league as the 705 S2's. But, at $2.5K a set I think that the Philharmonic BMR's would be a better move.

For $1800 you can get the BMR's w/Jim Salk cabinets that have a furniture grade finish. Plus, I am also intrigued by a 3-way design. Not to mention, a savings of close to $700. Right now, I can't afford either, but it sure never hurts to dream eh?


Cheers,


Phil

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's the source of the measurements you're quoting? Thanks

B&W 705 Stereophile, assuming the version 2 is similar.

Actually, I think the on-axis was more like +/- 2.0dB or better, maybe +/-1.8dB.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-705-loudspeaker-measurements

This shows that B&W is capable of making speakers with linear FR, but they just don't want to?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Since they launched the 800D series, B&W have employed first order filters on the tweeters instead of 3rd order, and that's why the on and off-axis response in the near field isn't as smooth as it was with the older Naultilus era and pre-Nautilus era models, so the older 705 measurements are unlikely to be a valid indicator of what to expect. Measurements will likely bear stronger resemblance to those of the 805D3.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Since they launched the 800D series, B&W have employed first order filters on the tweeters instead of 3rd order, and that's why the on and off-axis response in the near field isn't as smooth as it was with the older Naultilus era and pre-Nautilus era models, so the older 705 measurements are unlikely to be a valid indicator of what to expect. Measurements will likely bear stronger resemblance to those of the 805D3.

Good point.

I can't find any measurements of the 700 series S2.

I saw the B&W 683 S2 on-axis and it is more like +/- 4dB and the off-axis is nowhere near as smooth as the old B&W 705.

 

[Bad Kitty]

For speakers in that price range, you'd be hard pressed to find anything that measures more neutral and flat than the Revel M106 ($2k/pr) and M105 ($1.5k/pr).

The CM1's FR graph is atrocious: B&W CM1

The Revel M106 is superb: Revel M106

Take a look at the other Revel speakers' measurements at Soundstage as well. The entire Revel line are among the most accurate speakers on the planet, with smooth and flat response both on- and off-axis.

 

[speakerman39]

Since they launched the 800D series, B&W have employed first order filters on the tweeters instead of 3rd order, and that's why the on and off-axis response in the near field isn't as smooth as it was with the older Naultilus era and pre-Nautilus era models, so the older 705 measurements are unlikely to be a valid indicator of what to expect. Measurements will likely bear stronger resemblance to those of the 805D3.

Art, B&W is notorious for using the "less is more" approach to X-over design. That is, they claim the drivers work so well together that high order X-over designs are not needed. At least, that is what I have ascertained from my own reading. Joseph Audio is another one that uses the "less is more" approach as well.

The CM S2 Series uses the same exact drivers as those in the 600 S2 Series. The differences between the two series are with the cabinets and X-over components being employed. Of course, the CM S2 Series have thicker cabinets, a much better finish, and are more heavily braced. Not to mention, the CM S2 Series also uses better X-over components throughout. But, both use a 1st or 2nd order X-over design. Not sure about the 700 Series and/or the 800 Diamond Series though.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

For speakers in that price range, you'd be hard pressed to find anything that measures more neutral and flat than the Revel M106 ($2k/pr) and M105 ($1.5k/pr).

The CM1's FR graph is atrocious: B&W CM1

The Revel M106 is superb: Revel M106

Take a look at the other Revel speakers' measurements at Soundstage as well. The entire Revel line are among the most accurate speakers on the planet, with smooth and flat response both on- and off-axis.

B&W is known for not measuring very flat. However, the CM1 S1's still sounded very good in my small room. The low end was so good that I had to check and re-check just to make sure my sub was NOT on. I found the CM1's to be very laid-back and quite lushy and rich sounding. I am sure the Revels do sound good as I really miss my JBL 530's. Still using my JBL Everest 700 headphones a lot though.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Art, B&W is notorious for using the "less is more" approach to X-over design. That is, they claim the drivers work so well together that high order X-over designs are not needed. At least, that is what I have ascertained from my own reading. Joseph Audio is another one that uses the "less is more" approach as well.

The CM S2 Series uses the same exact drivers as those in the 600 S2 Series. The differences between the two series are with the cabinets and X-over components being employed. Of course, the CM S2 Series have thicker cabinets, a much better finish, and are more heavily braced. Not to mention, the CM S2 Series also uses better X-over components throughout. But, both use a 1st or 2nd order X-over design. Not sure about the 700 Series and/or the 800 Diamond Series though.


Cheers,

Phil

Joseph Audio uses "infinite slope" crossovers that start off with 100 dB/octave slopes. They are quite complex and involve interactions between adjacent inductors. It's pretty much the exact opposite of B&W's approach on their more mainstream speakers.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Since they launched the 800D series, B&W have employed first order filters on the tweeters instead of 3rd order, and that's why the on and off-axis response in the near field isn't as smooth as it was with the older Naultilus era and pre-Nautilus era models, so the older 705 measurements are unlikely to be a valid indicator of what to expect. Measurements will likely bear stronger resemblance to those of the 805D3.

The new 704 S2 tower tower appears to use the same tweeter and a slightly smaller Continuum driver as a mid, and it has a gaping dip at around 2200 Hz. So it's pretty hard to predict what B&W is handling crossovers on the newer speakers. https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1804:nrc-measurements-bowers-wilkins-704-s2-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153