What are we thinking with Taiwan and Ukraine?

D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I just don't get it. What are we getting out of sticking our nose into these conflicts?

Other than jeopardizing American civilian and military lives and the lives of other people in the world?

Both involve treaties and ideas that were developed decades ago. And may be obsolete for what they are originally intended

Both situations are really unwinnable and at great cost to us.

You got that idiotic Republican Senator saying we shouldn't leave a first strike nuclear option of the table with Ukraine

Really? What is our long term end game with both objectives?

And I cant believe I'm saying this but Russia actually has a point. If Ukraine goes Nato and they use that as a reason to stockpile weapons and military right by there border it compromises there border security and makes Putin look weak forcing him to act aggressively and escalate the situation!

Have we lost our minds?

I know we want to defend democracy around the globe but really? In a pandemic and with our own country obviously going through it's own crises right now.

Thank God Biden is not committing to ground troops and seems to be descalating the situation.

I'm really hoping it's just a rattling of the sabers. At least on our part because Russia has already stacked 100,000 troops against that border. If they decide to go which I'm thinking they may in 2 to 3 months I'm not seeing what we can really do about it.

Somebody help me understand what's going on here a little better please. Because I'm stumped any feedback appreciated
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I would say the question is how many weaker countries do we allow to become assimilated into autocracies and dictatorships before we act? If democracies don't help to defend fellow democracies, how long before there are no democracies left? In my opinion, Russia has already given us ample cause to wage war for their interference with our own democracy. Helping to have Trump elected was a devastating blow to our country and constitutes an act of war.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I would say the question is how many weaker countries do we allow to become assimilated into autocracies and dictatorships before we act? If democracies don't help to defend fellow democracies, how long before there are no democracies left? In my opinion, Russia has already given us ample cause to wage war for their interference with our own democracy. Helping to have Trump elected was a devastating blow to our country and constitutes an act of war.
Okay I feel ya I see where your coming from

Normally I'd be feeling your emotions and going yeah! But from a pragmatic stand point backing up these democracies right now comes at what cost?

Can we even win if we do? And at what costs? These countries are no pushovers and they are armed with nuclear weapons. The targets are in there backyards very hard for us to reach. And if we dont win look who suffers. You say you don't want Trump back right? If Biden backs them and takes us to war and loses what do you think is going to happen? It would be a death blow to Democrats right now

I can't even say they would be popular wars or what the majority of citizens would want.

And I can't help but think Shady how many democracies have we propped up over the years really not for their democracies but for our own personal gain?

How many dictators have we put in place how much manipulation have we caused in so many areas of the world and it's really been done not for them but our own gain?

I'm tired of being the world police for democracy when we got work to do on the integrity and stability of our own country right now. We can't even secure our own borders but we're going to be all up in Ukraine's and Russias backyard or Taiwans and Chinas

Plus I can't help but think we could handle one conflict maybe but 2? Cuz I guarantee you if we commit to Russia China is moving on Taiwan. If we commit to Taiwan Russia is moving on Ukraine

I mean it's what I would do if I were in there position

I don't think it's a coincidence both China and Russia are both building up resources to both of there possible targets at the exact same time.

We're going to seriously add onto our debt with this bill passing were hurting from the pandemic what do we really gain from this?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I would say the question is how many weaker countries do we allow to become assimilated into autocracies and dictatorships before we act? If democracies don't help to defend fellow democracies, how long before there are no democracies left? In my opinion, Russia has already given us ample cause to wage war for their interference with our own democracy. Helping to have Trump elected was a devastating blow to our country and constitutes an act of war.
I can understand us fighting when we are attacked or if there agression leads to us being threatened but I'm really growing disheartened at us always inserting ourselves into foreign affairs and really it's not about them. We're doing it for us. And the rest of the world knows it. They see right through it.

And I'm not sure that Russia and China are trying to expand past these areas that were once a part of there own countries which is why they are so heavily invested in them.

If they do keep expanding yeah we would have no choice but to fight but is fighting the best option right now right at this time?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
Here's a really fascinating read on why tensions have gotten so high between Russia and the US.

 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
Anyways keep the feedback coming guys I'm going to live like there's no tommorow I mean sh$t what can you really do?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I don't think there has been any suggestion of military intervention if Russia invades Ukraine. Ramping up economic measures are certainly being discussed. If they do invade, a complete embargo of Russian trade needs to be implemented. If there is no response, it will just encourage China to invade Taiwan. Western European countries need to wean themselves off of Russian oil and gas, as it makes them vulnerable to Russian arm twisting.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic General
Okay I feel ya I see where your coming from

Normally I'd be feeling your emotions and going yeah! But from a pragmatic stand point backing up these democracies right now comes at what cost?

Can we even win if we do? And at what costs? These countries are no pushovers and they are armed with nuclear weapons. The targets are in there backyards very hard for us to reach. And if we dont win look who suffers. You say you don't want Trump back right? If Biden backs them and takes us to war and loses what do you think is going to happen? It would be a death blow to Democrats right now

I can't even say they would be popular wars or what the majority of citizens would want.

And I can't help but think Shady how many democracies have we propped up over the years really not for their democracies but for our own personal gain?

How many dictators have we put in place how much manipulation have we caused in so many areas of the world and it's really been done not for them but our own gain?

I'm tired of being the world police for democracy when we got work to do on the integrity and stability of our own country right now. We can't even secure our own borders but we're going to be all up in Ukraine's and Russias backyard or Taiwans and Chinas

Plus I can't help but think we could handle one conflict maybe but 2? Cuz I guarantee you if we commit to Russia China is moving on Taiwan. If we commit to Taiwan Russia is moving on Ukraine

I mean it's what I would do if I were in there position

I don't think it's a coincidence both China and Russia are both building up resources to both of there possible targets at the exact same time.

We're going to seriously add onto our debt with this bill passing were hurting from the pandemic what do we really gain from this?
That's the thing, all of the superpowers have a vast array of nuclear weapons. Going to War, in today's World isn't like our fathers War back in the 40's. Russia, China, knowns no one can stop them. They have together more nuclear weapons than the United States alone. Could be wrong on the actual count.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
I've said it before and will repeat it. Ukraine and Taiwan are two very different cases.
One is a poor Slavic country with not many natural resources to fight for. Russia is fighting for Ukraine due to its military position in the Black Sea. They ALREADY annexed Crimea - the rest would make sense to follow.

Taiwan, on the other hand, just happens to be home to a single company in THE WORLD with advanced semiconductor manufacturing. Everyone else is at least two process generations behind, including Intel.
That alone is worth going to war with and not just for the US but also the EU as literally the entire world's latest technology from door buzzers to the biggest super computers chips are made only there.
That is more crucial than some oil in the desert.

Yes, this is a highly pragmatic view, but as Dan implies, we aren't in the '60s (Vietnam) nor 1998 (Kosovo war) -
The US will likely intervene with the military only if it would make sense financially.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
Appreciate the feedback guys just needed to vent keep it coming if anybody has some good insight perspectives I sure appreciate it
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I've said it before and will repeat it. Ukraine and Taiwan are two very different cases.
One is a poor Slavic country with not many natural resources to fight for. Russia is fighting for Ukraine due to its military position in the Black Sea. They ALREADY annexed Crimea - the rest would make sense to follow.

Taiwan, on the other hand, just happens to be home to a single company in THE WORLD with advanced semiconductor manufacturing. Everyone else is at least two process generations behind, including Intel.
That alone is worth going to war with and not just for the US but also the EU as literally the entire world's latest technology from door buzzers to the biggest super computers chips are made only there.
That is more crucial than some oil in the desert.

Yes, this is a highly pragmatic view, but as Dan implies, we aren't in the '60s (Vietnam) nor 1998 (Kosovo war) -
The US will likely intervene with the military only if it would make sense financially.
That makes a lot of sense thanks for the info it's crazy that one little island is the only place that has that type of technology. It's too bad we can't just implement that technology here. Do you think that's a possibility someday? Be nice to not be so invested in another countries resources
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
That makes a lot of sense thanks for the info it's crazy that one little island is the only place that has that type of technology. It's too bad we can't just implement that technology here. Do you think that's a possibility someday? Be nice to not be so invested in another countries resources
This was already declared to be a National Interest priority and the US Defence dept is already pouring many millions into Intel to build next-gen manufacturing facilities. The issue is this is neither fast nor cheap - we are talking a few years and 2-3 digits in BILLIONS worth of investments needed.
Intel only recently gained a CEO who's not a bean counter, but a proper engineer, so there is hope for Intel to turn around and be a world leader not just in sales but also in the technology process.
 
F

Fxpost

Enthusiast
Let me say this. We should mind our own business. Russia and China have done no harm to us. Should we believe everything we read from the lying social media? Washington is the biggest propaganda czar. Just like the Nazi Germany during WWII lying about the Jews. Don't you know we American are the warmonger of the world? So before we make any judgement, know your facts first.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Let me say this. We should mind our own business. Russia and China have done no harm to us. Should we believe everything we read from the lying social media? Washington is the biggest propaganda czar. Just like the Nazi Germany during WWII lying about the Jews. Don't you know we American are the warmonger of the world? So before we make any judgement, know your facts first.
Could please expand on what Germany was lying about the Jews?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
Let me say this. We should mind our own business. Russia and China have done no harm to us. Should we believe everything we read from the lying social media? Washington is the biggest propaganda czar. Just like the Nazi Germany during WWII lying about the Jews. Don't you know we American are the warmonger of the world? So before we make any judgement, know your facts first.
I'm confused about what you said about WW II and the Jews. Is there any way you could elaborate?
 
F

Fxpost

Enthusiast
This web site is about hifi that we all love, not a political forum. I’ll keep my view to myself. I’m pretty sure y’all are intelligent people. Don’t let the fake news to blind your judgment.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
This web site is about hifi that we all love, not a political forum. I’ll keep my view to myself. I’m pretty sure y’all are intelligent people. Don’t let the fake news to blind your judgment.
Fair enough thanks for chiming in tho
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Okay I feel ya I see where your coming from

Normally I'd be feeling your emotions and going yeah! But from a pragmatic stand point backing up these democracies right now comes at what cost?

Can we even win if we do? And at what costs? These countries are no pushovers and they are armed with nuclear weapons. The targets are in there backyards very hard for us to reach. And if we dont win look who suffers. You say you don't want Trump back right? If Biden backs them and takes us to war and loses what do you think is going to happen? It would be a death blow to Democrats right now

I can't even say they would be popular wars or what the majority of citizens would want.

And I can't help but think Shady how many democracies have we propped up over the years really not for their democracies but for our own personal gain?

How many dictators have we put in place how much manipulation have we caused in so many areas of the world and it's really been done not for them but our own gain?

I'm tired of being the world police for democracy when we got work to do on the integrity and stability of our own country right now. We can't even secure our own borders but we're going to be all up in Ukraine's and Russias backyard or Taiwans and Chinas

Plus I can't help but think we could handle one conflict maybe but 2? Cuz I guarantee you if we commit to Russia China is moving on Taiwan. If we commit to Taiwan Russia is moving on Ukraine

I mean it's what I would do if I were in there position

I don't think it's a coincidence both China and Russia are both building up resources to both of there possible targets at the exact same time.

We're going to seriously add onto our debt with this bill passing were hurting from the pandemic what do we really gain from this?
The right thing to do is never going to come without cost and shouldn't be done for reward. Either democracy is worth fighting for or it isn't. A war China or Russia would be devastating, however not fighting them may be even worse.

Yes, we have promoted bad governments for our own ends in the past, but that doesn't mean we should persist. As for "securing our borders," that kind of talk is Fox news propaganda gibbersih. We have much worse problems than border insecurity. Our own democracy is hanging by a thread. Maybe if we fight for it elsewhere, we will be reminded what it means for ourselves.
 
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