What’s with soundbars and atmos?

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Hokies83

Audioholic
From every thing I’ve been told, atmos requires proper speaker placement,
How can a sound bar place 3 speakers on the front side of the sound bar then 2 on top slap a tiny subwoofer with it, and possibly call itself 5.1.2 Dolby atmos / Dts X

Seems like just a giant rip off of the consumer to me.

Thoughts?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Yep. It’s called MARKETING. And it’s been robbing and screwing people over for centuries. Fukk them all...
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I think it's just so people who don't know any better can believe they really have a real Atmos system. If it makes them happy, who cares.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
The movie industry hasn't made a good film in over 60 years so who the hell needs to waste money on ATMOS to reproduce shitty cursing dialog? :rolleyes:
 
H

Hokies83

Audioholic
The movie industry hasn't made a good film in over 60 years so who the hell needs to waste money on ATMOS to reproduce shitty cursing dialog? :rolleyes:
Donno I don’t get any dialogue from my atmos speakers, just over head audio, gun shots, planes explosions etc.

That’s all the atmos movies I buy, things with explosive audio, I wouldn’t buy a romance drama for atmos that would be a waste lol.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Atmos is about digitally placing a sound into a space using math instead of mixing.

So, a Atmos soundbar, with two speakers, can get greater accuracy for audio placement vs. a analog mix.

Atmos is vector audio vs. bitmap audio... for those who can relate.

At least, that's my understanding.

The addition of more speakers to help pinpoint where a sound will be within a space is a enhancement to what Atmos can deliver, but doesn't change that even at a stereo level, Atmos can do a better job placing sounds within a space.
 
H

Hokies83

Audioholic
Atmos is about digitally placing a sound into a space using math instead of mixing.

So, a Atmos soundbar, with two speakers, can get greater accuracy for audio placement vs. a analog mix.

Atmos is vector audio vs. bitmap audio... for those who can relate.

At least, that's my understanding.

The addition of more speakers to help pinpoint where a sound will be within a space is a enhancement to what Atmos can deliver, but doesn't change that even at a stereo level, Atmos can do a better job placing sounds within a space.
Yeah that’s the jest of it,
I just don’t see a sound bar in the middle of the listening position aiming up and 2 rear satellites properly reproducing it.
 
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M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Since most sound bars I've seen are placed under TV's, I question the effectiveness of top firing speakers.
 
H

Hokies83

Audioholic
Since most sound bars I've seen are placed under TV's, I question the effectiveness of top firing speakers.
Plus the 3D effect is supposed to travel around over head, I don’t see how a badly bounced off the wall front speaker can do it.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Plus the 3D effect is supposed to travel around over head, I don’t see how a badly bounced off the wall front speaker can do it.
Right?! There’s no way that system can phantom image into the room using XYZ coordinates in a single location. Something that dries me is Disney mixes that use 7.1.4 prints without real objects. Wow...way to cut the nuts off... oh, and filter the lfe at 30hz...
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
Donno I don’t get any dialogue from my atmos speakers, just over head audio, gun shots, planes explosions etc.

That’s all the atmos movies I buy, things with explosive audio, I wouldn’t buy a romance drama for atmos that would be a waste lol.
You are absolutely right, I was just ranting about the state of Hollywood films today as compared to classics of long ago, true, ATMOS is not needed for those, except for maybe the scene in North By Northwest where Cary Grant is chased by the airplane, or in From Russia With Love where 007 is being chased by a helicopter.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You are absolutely right, I was just ranting about the state of Hollywood films today as compared to classics of long ago, true, ATMOS is not needed for those, except for maybe the scene in North By Northwest where Cary Grant is chased by the airplane, or in From Russia With Love where 007 is being chased by a helicopter.
You are looking at the hollywood of yore with rose-tinted glasses. I would say that even in the so-called 'golden-age' of hollywood, they much just as much artistically abysmal creations as today, and maybe even worse since film was viewed more as a commodity than an art in those days. You are only remembering the greats, but for every classic there was 99 forgettable time-fillers. That hasn't changed.
 
D

dvgeek

Audiophyte
IMHO proper Atmos requires proper speaker placement - front (L+R), center, front (TopLeft+TopRight), Back (L+R), side (L+R) with 2 subs - requiring a 9.2 amplifier...
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The concept behind Atmos is something that I think is brand new. People think 'MORE SPEAKERS!' - but that isn't it. Or, that's not really all of it.

The breakthrough with Atmos is that audio isn't mixed in an analog world. So, while a speaker bar will still sound like a speaker bar, it can accept and use Atmos digital positioning for better sound placement.

Which is STILL a speaker bar trying to do what a good set of speakers is doing.

People seem to think Atmos is all about height and effects, but it's the entire audio recording and surround process done in a completely new way allowing even basic stereo imaging to have better placement and more accuracy in any environment.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
The concept behind Atmos is something that I think is brand new. People think 'MORE SPEAKERS!' - but that isn't it. Or, that's not really all of it.

The breakthrough with Atmos is that audio isn't mixed in an analog world. So, while a speaker bar will still sound like a speaker bar, it can accept and use Atmos digital positioning for better sound placement.

Which is STILL a speaker bar trying to do what a good set of speakers is doing.

People seem to think Atmos is all about height and effects, but it's the entire audio recording and surround process done in a completely new way allowing even basic stereo imaging to have better placement and more accuracy in any environment.
Exactly. It’s XYZ coordinates for objects mixed in conjunction with the bed layer of “normal” mixing. My problem is that you can’t phantom image into a room from a single location. DSP just isn’t that good, and bouncing of the walls and ceiling takes a good amount of effort. To me an atmos soundbar is like putting a “sport” sticker on a minivan!!!
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Exactly. It’s XYZ coordinates for objects mixed in conjunction with the bed layer of “normal” mixing. My problem is that you can’t phantom image into a room from a single location. DSP just isn’t that good, and bouncing of the walls and ceiling takes a good amount of effort. To me an atmos soundbar is like putting a “sport” sticker on a minivan!!!
The idea of reflecting sound and directing sound isn't new though. It's ancient. And companies which are deep into audio, like Yamaha, are pretty deep in the concept of using beamforming speakers and projecting them.

I'm not about to say that a speakerbar is going to EVER match a setup of separates, but in a decent family room which has 9' ceilings and side walls, it could very well do a lot better than a standard speaker bar and certainly can do the far more important WAF which may be required.

I'm not about to stick my nose up and say "That's not the proper way to do it.", when different situations require different factors, and there are certainly reviews which seem to indicate that some of these soundbars are pretty good at giving greater dimensionality to Atmos tracks.

I haven't heard one personally. In fact, I may never hear one ever. But, I'm willing to give some benefit to quality manufacturers and the better rated products out there and some of the better review sites that indicate some decent quality... from these soundbars.

Key word remains: soundbar.

I'm not even sure how much stereo imaging people can expect from a speaker that is a few feet wide.
 
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