Wanting to build a pair of top quality bookshelf speakers - Help!

[Steve1580]

I happen to be fairly adept at woodworking, posses all the necessary equipment and tools and skill to handle building whatever cabinet is needed, but need to fill in the blanks finding all the best components, drivers, plans, etc. to build a top sounding set of larger bookshelf speakers. I am currently using Kplisch in wall speakers, and while they sound firly good, I want to up try and up my game, put my woodworking skills to work and try and build a top shelf set of speakers.

Since my labor will be considered free, I would be able to spend a good amount on components.

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[TLS Guy]

I happen to be fairly adept at woodworking, posses all the necessary equipment and tools and skill to handle building whatever cabinet is needed, but need to fill in the blanks finding all the best components, drivers, plans, etc. to build a top sounding set of larger bookshelf speakers. I am currently using Kplisch in wall speakers, and while they sound firly good, I want to up try and up my game, put my woodworking skills to work and try and build a top shelf set of speakers.

Since my labor will be considered free, I would be able to spend a good amount on components.

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Steve

What maximum dimensions are we talking about? Will they be used with subs? Will they be on stands and not right up against a boundary?

What is the space they will be in? You should know that bookshelves are not really suited to larger spaces, but can perform well in smaller spaces, especially of the space does not open up into other areas.

Is this part of an AV system with center channel and may be surrounds?

What do you plan to power them with?

Lastly, what sort of program will they be mainly playing.

 

[Steve1580]

What maximum dimensions are we talking about? Will they be used with subs? Will they be on stands and not right up against a boundary?

What is the space they will be in? You should know that bookshelves are not really suited to larger spaces, but can perform well in smaller spaces, especially of the space does not open up into other areas.

Is this part of an AV system with center channel and may be surrounds?

What do you plan to power them with?

Lastly, what sort of program will they be mainly playing.

I know I should have given more information, sorry, I'll go in order:

What maximum dimensions are we talking about? (I can go up to 27" x 16")Will they be used with subs? (Yes, I have a HSU ULS15 Sub) Will they be on stands and not right up against a boundary? (I could go on the shelf with the dimensions above, with a rear obstruction or not limited on stands, my wife does not want me going with free standing speakers)?

What is the space they will be in? (My listening space is about 20'x15')You should know that bookshelves are not really suited to larger spaces, but can perform well in smaller spaces, especially of the space does not open up into other areas. (Yes I do, but the wife is not up for big floorstanders!)

Is this part of an AV system with center channel and may be surrounds? (No, not a big AV guy, just like as high a quality music sound as possible)

What do you plan to power them with? (Currently I have Marantz SR5008, but could add/replace as necessary).

Lastly, what sort of program will they be mainly playing. (?, don't understand the question)
Marantz DV 9600 Oppo BD-83 Marantz AV 8003 Quad current dumping amps X 7 Direct TV HD 20 HD DVR Carter audio workstation RME Fireface 800 Fujitsu 50XHA40 Front left and right Carter dual transmission line studio monitors MK II. Center Carter coaxial transmission line center speaker Rear Carter NFM-1s Center backs Carter dual transmission line studio monitors MK I.

 

[TLS Guy]

I know I should have given more information, sorry, I'll go in order:

What maximum dimensions are we talking about? (I can go up to 27" x 16")Will they be used with subs? (Yes, I have a HSU ULS15 Sub) Will they be on stands and not right up against a boundary? (I could go on the shelf with the dimensions above, with a rear obstruction or not limited on stands, my wife does not want me going with free standing speakers)?

What is the space they will be in? (My listening space is about 20'x15')You should know that bookshelves are not really suited to larger spaces, but can perform well in smaller spaces, especially of the space does not open up into other areas. (Yes I do, but the wife is not up for big floorstanders!)

Is this part of an AV system with center channel and may be surrounds? (No, not a big AV guy, just like as high a quality music sound as possible)

What do you plan to power them with? (Currently I have Marantz SR5008, but could add/replace as necessary).

Lastly, what sort of program will they be mainly playing. (?, don't understand the question)
Marantz DV 9600 Oppo BD-83 Marantz AV 8003 Quad current dumping amps X 7 Direct TV HD 20 HD DVR Carter audio workstation RME Fireface 800 Fujitsu 50XHA40 Front left and right Carter dual transmission line studio monitors MK II. Center Carter coaxial transmission line center speaker Rear Carter NFM-1s Center backs Carter dual transmission line studio monitors MK I.

By program, I mean classical, rock, Jazz etc.

Putting speakers in shelves can be problematic. Do you have a picture?

You only gave me two dimensions. A speaker has at least 3.

Would you be prepared to ship them to me after you have built them? If you want high end speakers, then the designer really has to have the speakers to measure them, listen to them and optimize the crossover.

 

[Steve1580]

By program, I mean classical, rock, Jazz etc.

Putting speakers in shelves can be problematic. Do you have a picture?

You only gave me two dimensions. A speaker has at least 3.

Would you be prepared to ship them to me after you have built them? If you want high end speakers, then the designer really has to have the speakers to measure them, listen to them and optimize the crossover.

By question:

By program, I mean classical, rock, Jazz etc. (Classical, jazz, classic rock and bluegrass is my wheelhouse, but I can be know to listen to anything afro-cuban, etc., like it all as long as it sounds good!)

Putting speakers in shelves can be problematic. Do you have a picture? (See attached picture, lower shelf is 16" deep x 16" high x 30" wide, upper is 16" deep x 30"wide x 30"high bottom of shelves are double 3/4 inch birch plywood)

You only gave me two dimensions. A speaker has at least 3. (You can see the poor placement of my in-wall speakers, see above dimensions)

Would you be prepared to ship them to me after you have built them? If you want high end speakers, then the designer really has to have the speakers to measure them, listen to them and optimize the crossover. (I suppose, would you send them back? - LOL)

 

[Steve1580]

I should have mentioned, I am open to building stands as well...

 

[Steve1580]

I should mention my wife's dream location is on the lower shelf. If the speakers were placed horizontally, that would leave 30" wide, 16" high, and could extend out as far as 24 inches deep because the bottom shelf juts out. With this setup I would hear much less whining, and that does make life easier!

 

[rojo]

I happen to be fairly adept at woodworking, posses all the necessary equipment and tools and skill to handle building whatever cabinet is needed, but need to fill in the blanks finding all the best components, drivers, plans, etc. to build a top sounding set of larger bookshelf speakers. I am currently using Kplisch in wall speakers, and while they sound firly good, I want to up try and up my game, put my woodworking skills to work and try and build a top shelf set of speakers.

Since my labor will be considered free, I would be able to spend a good amount on components.

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Steve

When I think of top quality bookshelf speaker kits, I think of Selah Audio. Madisound, Meniscus, and DIY Sound Group are also worthwhile sources for excellent kits. There are lots of tried-and-true designs on all those sites. Nice thing about DIYSG is that all their kits include a front baffle, which will save you a lot of time and effort -- but their kits tend to lean more toward budget drivers and shy away from higher end drivers such as RAAL ribbons or Scan-Speak Revelators. Do you have a budget in mind?

I should mention my wife's dream location is on the lower shelf. If the speakers were placed horizontally, that would leave 30" wide, 16" high, and could extend out as far as 24 inches deep because the bottom shelf juts out. With this setup I would hear much less whining, and that does make life easier!

It'll be difficult to predict how speakers will interact with this sort of environment. I'm thinking maybe sealed speakers or micro monitors (like Jeff Bagby's Quarks or Scott Sehlin's Heliums) to take advantage of the additional boundary gain, and plan for a higher crossover point between bookshelfs and sub? But I wouldn't go horizontal orientation. You'll most likely get some weird off-axis response, which will color the early reflections and make the end result less pleasing. Maybe look for designs calling for a cabinet < 16" tall? That's not too difficult.

Something else to consider, the best placement will be to have the tweeters at ear level at your seating position. Will the bottom shelf be adequate height to accomplish that? Is the lower shelf wide enough to space your speakers so that they're 30° to the left and right of your primary listening position?

Also, I'm pleasantly surprised to see @TLS Guy offer to tune your build personally. That's sort of like Eric Clapton offering to tune your guitar for you. You can trust that he won't leave you dissatisfied. Some random guy on a message board (me) vouches for him.

 

[Steve1580]

When I think of top quality bookshelf speaker kits, I think of Selah Audio. Madisound, Meniscus, and DIY Sound Group are also worthwhile sources for excellent kits. There are lots of tried-and-true designs on all those sites. Nice thing about DIYSG is that all their kits include a front baffle, which will save you a lot of time and effort -- but their kits tend to lean more toward budget drivers and shy away from higher end drivers such as RAAL ribbons or Scan-Speak Revelators. Do you have a budget in mind?

I have browsed the Madisound site and being a complete audiophile neophyte those sites are a little overwhelming. When I go through the effort of buying expensive wood (Cuban mahogany, Sapele, etc.) and the time to make a really nice cabinet, I want to enjoy a significant sound upgrade as the final result. Budget is a tough one to answer, I was thinking of $1,000 to start (excluding cabinet costs) and could go up from there if need be.

 

[speakerman39]

This kit is very high end and looks very promising:


https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/nada-2-way-klang-ton-kit-pair-using-illuminator/


There is no telling what these would retail for. Just thought that I would mention this one. The Be tweeters are considered some of the best made.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Steve1580]

This kit is very high end and looks very promising:


https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/nada-2-way-klang-ton-kit-pair-using-illuminator/


There is no telling what these would retail for. Just thought that I would mention this one. The Be tweeters are considered some of the best made.


Cheers,

Phil

Thank you Phil, the price is a little higher than I was thinking at first. but is digestible. If any other options come to mind please share!

Thanks again!

 

[shadyJ]

It'll be difficult to predict how speakers will interact with this sort of environment. I'm thinking maybe sealed speakers or micro monitors (like Jeff Bagby's Quarks or Scott Sehlin's Heliums) to take advantage of the additional boundary gain, and plan for a higher crossover point between bookshelfs and sub?

I was at a shootout between the Quarks and Heliums. Both were terrific little speakers. The Quarks had a bit more bass capability or at least they had more of a tilt in bass than the Heliums. I think I would go for the Quarks because at these sizes the speakers need all the help in bass that they can get.

 

[Steve1580]

I was at a shootout between the Quarks and Heliums. Both were terrific little speakers. The Quarks had a bit more bass capability or at least they had more of a tilt in bass than the Heliums. I think I would go for the Quarks because at these sizes the speakers need all the help in bass that they can get.

Thank you for the response, I'm certain they are great sounding smaller speakers, but I may be looking for a little more size and umph (if that's a word?).

 

[shadyJ]

Thank you for the response, I'm certain they are great sounding smaller speakers, but I may be looking for a little more size and umph (if that's a word?).

Lol, I am not suggesting you build those. TSLGuy has an intriguing plan using two MarkAudio drivers in a MTM configuration, that looks like it could be a very good speaker. I would ask him about that plan if I were you.

 

[Steve1580]

Sorry I didn't understand the message, I will message him for information. Thank you for the help.
Steve

 

[TLS Guy]

Lol, I am not suggesting you build those. TSLGuy has an intriguing plan using two MarkAudio drivers in a MTM configuration, that looks like it could be a very good speaker. I would ask him about that plan if I were you.

Yes, but he has a bookshelf. That is absolutely the worst place to put speakers.

Not only that the shelf is wider than it is tall. So there is massive set up for diffraction error and lobing error.

So a three way would have to be designed like two center speakers.

I'm really not interested in this project unless the Op's wife comes to her senses.

It is an absolute waste of time designing or paying for anything of quality on a budget with those constraints. You could make a decent job of it, but with a lot of complexity and expense.

His current arrangement is absolutely horrendous.

Yes I do have a cost effective elegant design up my sleeve, but unless he is prepared to have small towers it would not fit his parameters. Yes, I'm looking for an opportunity to have these built. Honestly it looks like one of the most promising designs I have come up with and it won't cost a fortune. The crossover has only four components and will cost next to nothing.

 

[shadyJ]

Yes I do have a cost effective elegant design up my sleeve, but unless he is prepared to have small towers it would not fit his parameters. Yes, I'm looking for an opportunity to have these built. Honestly it looks like one of the most promising designs I have come up with and it won't cost a fortune. The crossover has only four components and will cost next to nothing.

You need to make these speakers happen, even if no one will ever use them. They should have substantiated existence, so they can be more than a platonic ideal. I say, make them, measure them, and if they pan out to be good performers, then share the plans on various DIY groups with the measurements there as proof of concept.

 

[Winkleswizard]

Would suggest looking at a couple of sites: Speakerdesignworks.com and zaphaudio.com. If you do not know whether the speakers will land on shelf or stand, both these sites have designs with different crossover options for baffle step compensation.

Since you have a subwoofer, you will generally get better sound reproduction with a sealed box design. I have built several of the Zaph ZA5s and they sound great. I also have the Dayton Audio 621 and am struggling with their sound. I like Bagby's designs too, but have not had the need to try to build any of them...

Madisound has Zaph kits and some very nice high end ones too. Other than the ZA5s, would suggest looking into the Linkwitz LXmini too.

Ww

 

[Steve1580]

Yes, but he has a bookshelf. That is absolutely the worst place to put speakers.

Not only that the shelf is wider than it is tall. So there is massive set up for diffraction error and lobing error.

So a three way would have to be designed like two center speakers.

I'm really not interested in this project unless the Op's wife comes to her senses.

It is an absolute waste of time designing or paying for anything of quality on a budget with those constraints. You could make a decent job of it, but with a lot of complexity and expense.

His current arrangement is absolutely horrendous.

Yes I do have a cost effective elegant design up my sleeve, but unless he is prepared to have small towers it would not fit his parameters. Yes, I'm looking for an opportunity to have these built. Honestly it looks like one of the most promising designs I have come up with and it won't cost a fortune. The crossover has only four components and will cost next to nothing.

TSL guy, sounds like you are truly an expert on this subject, and I am clearly not. I apologize for that. I also apologize for not building the correct top bookshelf unit for this use. Actually the placement of my existing top bookshelf unit shown was an afterthought. Originally we built the lower unit hence the location of the in wall speakers. Later we added the upper unit and the only thing I could do is leave the in-wall speakers and build around them. I am the first to admit it is indeed a terrible location for them which is the reason for my wanting to abandon them and move on. I suppose from your post my option of building stands outside of the bookshelf is not an option either.

Although my wife has been know to loose here senses once in a great while, she actually is very level headed.

Since my wall unit is so wide I would be afraid that building small towers would leave them greatly separated and might not be ideal. I just don't know the answers to these questions.

Just trying to work with what I have to get a great sounding system.

 

[Steve1580]

Would suggest looking at a couple of sites: Speakerdesignworks.com and zaphaudio.com. If you do not know whether the speakers will land on shelf or stand, both these sites have designs with different crossover options for baffle step compensation.

Since you have a subwoofer, you will generally get better sound reproduction with a sealed box design. I have built several of the Zaph ZA5s and they sound great. I also have the Dayton Audio 621 and am struggling with their sound. I like Bagby's designs too, but have not had the need to try to build any of them...

Madisound has Zaph kits and some very nice high end ones too. Other than the ZA5s, would suggest looking into the Linkwitz LXmini too.

Ww

Thank you! I will look at these.