Want to make sure I have enough sub…

R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
I am piecing together a home theater and have the following gear:

Pioneer LX701 AVR set up 7.2.4
Sony A80J 77 inch OLED
Triad LCR front and center
Two Muse Model 170s monoblock for left and right.
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus left sub
Outlaw LFM-1 EX right sub
Gershman Acoustics X-1 surround
Pinnacle BD-500 rear surround
Canton rear elevation
Unknown in-wall front elevation
NAD 2600A amp for center channel

I have a B&K sound meter, so I could do measurements.

I also have a low cost Sony measurement mic that I have used for the Pioneer auto-cal. Is there some software I can use with a laptop to do sound sweeps and find out if I have a desirable SPL for bass at low-distortion?

Or even an iPhone app that will cast sound to the system and use the iPhone mic to measure?

My theater is 2150 cubic feet, but that is only using curtain dividers and in a larger room that is a total of 7500 cubic feet. Not sure if that means my “room size” is 2150 or 7500 cubic feet?

The subs are 10 feet from the main listening position.

I realize I need to test to be sure, and I will get to that, but are these subs likely adequate or should I order 1 or 2 more of something like an SVS or Hsu VTF-2 MK5?

466BD274-6FEA-44F6-BDD5-30AC4FEAA0D9.jpeg


7A0FA68E-4D52-4355-BC7E-D83289DC87F6.jpeg
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Hmm... I'm not familiar with either sub, but the EX looks to be the more capable of the 2. In general we recommend matching subs when going dual otherwise you're limited to the capabilities of the weaker sub.

The room and any space open to it do count toward room volume. You don't necessarily have to pressurize the entire space, but it does factor in. Spec-wise a pair of EX's might just do the trick. Right now you have a mismatch.

I'm curious what you have going on for your center channel. In your pic there's a speaker on the floor in front of the tv, but looks like you have another one, a center channel, behind the tv? You might have some opportunity for improvement there as well.

*Edit: on second glance I see those subs have variable tuning and list 2 different fr's. They're closer in performance than I first thought. How does it all sound? Are you lacking for bass?
 
R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
Only the one center speaker is active. The smaller Pinnacle above it is not hooked up.

I got those two speaker sets for free as they came with the house as they were discovered behind built in screens in the walls that the previous owner forgot. I guess her husband put them it and then she divorced him and she didn’t know to take them out. All made in USA good stuff.

The smaller sub is in a corner wall so that helps. My Pioneer auto cal has them matched.

They sound good, but I may not know what I am missing.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Only the one center speaker is active. The smaller Pinnacle above it is not hooked up.

I got those two speaker sets for free as they came with the house as they were discovered behind built in screens in the walls that the previous owner forgot. I guess her husband put them it and then she divorced him and she didn’t know to take them out. All made in USA good stuff.

The smaller sub is in a corner wall so that helps. My Pioneer auto cal has them matched.

They sound good, but I may not know what I am missing.
Yeah, when I looked closer at the specs I realized the 2 subs do have similar fr's and should play pretty well together. As far as whether or not you're missing anything is really hard to say unless we can see some measurements or be there to hear it in person. I think, properly set up, those subs might just be adequate but wouldn't hurt to get something more powerful, or add another one or 2 of the same.

Let's see who else pops in for some more opinions tho before you run out and spend anything. Depending on how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go, you could very well benefit getting a calibrated mic and REW so you can take some measurements to see where things are at right now. A mic will cost you about 80 bucks and REW is free, but there's a bit of a learning curve so it's not for everyone. It just depends on how serious you wanna get about dialing your system in. It really helped me a lot, but I'm a tweaker so that kinda thing is right up my alley.

So the center channel behind the tv is not hooked up and you're using the one on the floor in front? I think you might notice an improvement in dialogue if you get it up off the floor and get the tweeter closer to ear height or angled up toward the listening position.
 
R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
That center is too large to fit onto the shelf.

Thanks for the software name.

I paid $800 15 years ago for measurement mic on my B&K sound meter so $80 sounds cheap enough.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Sony has a measurement mic? What happened to the one that came with your Pioneer? What do you mean left and right subs?
 
R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
Sony has a measurement mic? What happened to the one that came with your Pioneer? What do you mean left and right subs?
If you set your speaker size to small, then any sound below the crossover setting will go to the left or right subwoofer.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Hi!
Seems brother @Pogre has a good handle here. I would add, IIRC the old LFM subs from outlaw were pretty good but imo, you could do much better today if you’re inclined to spend a little money. I’d have to wrack my brain cell or dig out some old reviews. Maybe data-bass still has some of that info.

Also, I don’t know if I would trust a Sony measurement mix with pioneer software. Those things are typically built to run with companion hardware/software. As far as spl meter phone apps, I MIGHT trust one to level my regular speakers, but imo the mic roll off is much too early.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Don't use the Sony measurement mic with the pioneer calibration. The Pioneer will have a very different correction file for its own mic. By using a different mic for measurements, you will absolutely be degrading the sound. Anyway, Pioneer's MCACC is so bad that it is best not to use it at all, even if you had the correct mic, unless it has a way to limit the calibration for bass frequencies only.

The subs are good ones, and they should be enough for that room.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you set your speaker size to small, then any sound below the crossover setting will go to the left or right subwoofer.
Yes, am quite familiar with bass management :). There is no "left" or "right" subwoofer, it's a mono signal....which was somewhat my point. Or how did you set up?
 
R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
Yes, am quite familiar with bass management :). There is no "left" or "right" subwoofer, it's a mono signal....which was somewhat my point. Or how did you set up?
The Pioneer has two outputs for subs and graphically shows them on the left or right, so I assume it sends left and right signals to them. I think only LFE is mono.

As for the mic, I know it is not matched as per EQ, but it is perfectly capable of finding problems like phase errors, standing waves, identifying speakers not working, and setting relative levels between different drivers. I have to do the final setup manually anyway with my sound level meter. This is an early crude setup and not close to done.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The Pioneer has two outputs for subs and graphically shows them on the left or right, so I assume it sends left and right signals to them. I think only LFE is mono.

As for the mic, I know it is not matched as per EQ, but it is perfectly capable of finding problems like phase errors, standing waves, identifying speakers not working, and setting relative levels between different drivers. I have to do the final setup manually anyway with my sound level meter. This is an early crude setup and not close to done.

Looking thru the avr manual I see that you at least have the ability to set level/delay separately for the two subs but no indication there's anything in the way of L/R separation for the two subs going on (which would be extremely rare in an avr). It doesn't mention L/R for subs, just 1/2 from what I saw, odd if a setup screen shows otherwise. The normal summing of bass redirection from various speakers is mono, tho.

The mic may be similar enough to the Pioneer's dedicated mic, but hard to know. It may affect any of the functions of the mic/dsp, tho.
 
R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
I see. The left / right at least helps me measure the distance to each one and keep track of the wiring and settings for the stored parameters.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I see. The left / right at least helps me measure the distance to each one and keep track of the wiring and settings for the stored parameters.
Can do that with 1 and 2 as well but odd they'd mix the terminology....
 
R

rsilvers

Audiophyte
They call them 1 and 2. They show them as left and right with the on-screen visualization.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
I sell Triad so I might be able to help you match your current Triads to surrounds and/or Atmos speakers. Can you tell me which Triad speakers you have?

The cubic foot size of your room is typically specified for a "sealed" room, but it will also depend on the material of your curtains. Are they made of heavy velvet fabric?
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Audioholic
I am piecing together a home theater and have the following gear:

Pioneer LX701 AVR set up 7.2.4
Sony A80J 77 inch OLED
Triad LCR front and center
Two Muse Model 170s monoblock for left and right.
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus left sub
Outlaw LFM-1 EX right sub
Gershman Acoustics X-1 surround
Pinnacle BD-500 rear surround
Canton rear elevation
Unknown in-wall front elevation
NAD 2600A amp for center channel

I have a B&K sound meter, so I could do measurements.

I also have a low cost Sony measurement mic that I have used for the Pioneer auto-cal. Is there some software I can use with a laptop to do sound sweeps and find out if I have a desirable SPL for bass at low-distortion?

Or even an iPhone app that will cast sound to the system and use the iPhone mic to measure?

My theater is 2150 cubic feet, but that is only using curtain dividers and in a larger room that is a total of 7500 cubic feet. Not sure if that means my “room size” is 2150 or 7500 cubic feet?

The subs are 10 feet from the main listening position.

I realize I need to test to be sure, and I will get to that, but are these subs likely adequate or should I order 1 or 2 more of something like an SVS or Hsu VTF-2 MK5?

View attachment 50911

View attachment 50912
Just wondering, who's behind the curtain?
 
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