jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
VMPS Thoughts

I was bored tonight so I surfed over to the VPMS website and did a bunch of reading. Their stuff really intrigues me. Some of the stuff is surprising (like the claimed distortion of the ribbons used on Magnepan speakers). But, while there's a ton of great science and measurement, I can't help but wonder why the owner there is a believer of the cable voodoo. He doesn't harp a lot on the site, but it's definitely there. Any thoughts?
 
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golfhack

Audioholic Intern
I don't know what they were claiming, but maggies are highly popular.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Well, basically stating that the single ended ribbon designs used in some magnepan speakers have harmonic distortion of aroune 30% :eek:
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
There's a guy over at AC that recently replaced his Maggies (3.6's) with some VMPS RM-30's, and claims they crush his Maggies. I've never heard any VMPS speaker, but they have a fanatical following. Their RM-40's won Best of Show at CES a couple years back, and their RM/X's were a part of the system that won last year.
 
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mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
jaxvon said:
Well, basically stating that the single ended ribbon designs used in some magnepan speakers have harmonic distortion of aroune 30% :eek:

Seriously? I have been seriously considering buying a pair, so I'd like to know if this is so...if it is, I have another speaker that will take it's place....accuracy is priority 1 on my 2-channel setup.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Well, I don't know for sure because I didn't test them, but VMPS sure seems like they know what they're talking about. Okay, after a bunch of searching, i can't find the reference to Magnepan that I found last night. I might just be crazy. But, it's still worth looking into.
 
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warnerwh

Full Audioholic
You guys should just go to the VMPS forum and feel free to ask questions. There's alot of knowledgeable help just like here. The VMPS speakers are and have been an excellent bargain.
There are also other brands that are also excellent that you don't hear about because these companies don't spend the huge amount of money on advertising compared to B&W, Paradigm etc. And guess who pays for those huge advertising budgets?
A whole world of great equipment like Mark Schifters AV123 company Rocket series, Perpetual Technolgies among other products await those who like to get the best stuff for the money and are willing to do research. Selah Audio, Von Schweikert, Joseph Audio all make great speakers for the money.
VMPS has a fanatical following by well versed audio people because Brian Cheney has done an excellent job of creating speakers that sound spectacular for the money. The RM 40's that won Best Of High End at CES were also called a "Masterpiece" by International Audio Review and a Component of Exceptional Merit by Bound for sound. Two people who reviewed VMPS speakers bought the review pair. The bottom line is the users opinions and after thirty years in this hobby, speaking for myself, I've never heard better speakers per dollar than VMPS. As a matter of fact most are almost laughable at the same price, ie. Vandersteens, B&W and Thiels.
You must remember that your opinion is the only important one. Listen for yourself. Anybody in the Northwest is welcome to come to my home and listen to VMPS speakers in my dedicated and treated listening room. Also I'm one person who doesn't believe in magic wire, my speaker wires are actually car stereo wires and my Pre to Amp wires are Canare microphone cables.
 
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denverdoc

Enthusiast
a dissenting view on value of VMPS

warnerwh said:
.... VMPS has a fanatical following by well versed audio people because Brian Cheney has done an excellent job of creating speakers that sound spectacular for the money. The RM 40's that won Best Of High End at CES were also called a "Masterpiece" by International Audio Review and a Component of Exceptional Merit by Bound for sound....QUOTE]

And there are many very knowledgeable audiophiles who think Mr. Cheney is a fruit (I am not knocking the man as I have never met him,but agree his fanatacism with regard to cables, parts tolerance, mortite mass all seem out there on the fringe at least) and that the sound from these speakers is highly colored. I know of the fanaticism which is why at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, I visited the VMPS exhibit 3 times in an effort to understand the appeal. For me the RM-30's on display were ho-hum and were bested by a wide margin by speakers from Usher, Oddysey Audio, and Triangle to name a few, all for less $$. And the Magnepans are very good speakers in many, many respects. Anyone thinking of investing this kind of dough owes it to himself to visit a high end show like the RMAF to hear a broad array of speakers w/in the price bracket before purchase. Just my 2 cents worth,
John
 
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warnerwh

Full Audioholic
VMPS has garnered excellent reviews since the eighties especially for bass but here is a list of current reviews:
12/12/04 VMPS RM30 loudspeakers

as reviewed by Roger S. Gordon

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/vmpsrm30.htm


The New RM30 by Frank Alles from Stereo Times

http://www.stereotimes.com/

The New Brian Cheney Signature Edition 626R review by John Beavers from Positive Feedback Online

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/vmps626R.htm

The 626R (non-BCSE) review by Steve Lefkowicz from Positive Feedback Online

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/vmps.htm

The RM40 by Marty DeWulf from Bound for Sound

http://www.vmpsaudio.com/wulf.htm

The RM40 by Peter Montcrief from the International Audio Review

http://www.iar-80.com/page47.html

The RM2 by Steve Lefkowicz in Listener Magazine

http://www.vmpsaudio.com/listener.htm


More coming soon

http://www.boundforsound.com/currIssue.htm

Please listen for yourself. I asked a world famous singer who owns RM 40's when I was at his house how close to real he thought they were. The man is in his 50's and has been into high end audio since the 80's, works at places like the New York Met etc, etc. He told me he is stunned how close to "Live" they sound. I concur as do many others. Of course your personal opinion is all that matters but you would be doing yourselves a disservice to not listen to some VMPS before you bought speakers. The fact denverdoc thought the RM 30's sounded colored means absolutely nothing except to him. Once you hear for yourself this line there will be no doubt.
Brian's fanaticism with wire has been that he has used 12 ga Monster cable for umpteen years. Real fringe stuff:) Now you have the option of putting in Analysis Plus for a premium price. And Analysis plus isn't near as bad as alot of wire companies. This started after winning CES and being in the same system as the CES winner the next year. I'm sure customers have asked for this and I once read where Mcintosh had to use exotic wire because people wouldn't take them seriously with they saw zipcord they used as speaker cable. So Mcintosh used exotic wire to help sales. Great article on this on Roger Russell's Mcintosh site btw.
Regarding adjusting the mass, the putty on the Passive Radiator. That is a great idea to be able to adjust the Q of your bass to your liking and room. The bass VMPS is known for has to give some credit to the adjustability to the room.
I'm just trying to pass along what I know is an outstanding company. Service is second to none too. There are other great companies like AV123 who make great products. Also the owner of AV123, Mark Schifter, is also no less than stellar when it comes to customer service.
I just want everybody here to know there is more to the audio world than Klipsch, Paradigm and B&W. All good companies and I like the sound of B&W and Paradigms, have owned Paradigms, but you have a huge world of great products besides the companies who spend huge sums on advertising that are more than worthy of your time. The best benefit though is you can often get something you like better for the same or less money. Cheers
 
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mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
the only thing that bugs me is they are comparing themselves to Magnepan when their speakers are not even of similar design...their speakers are more of a ribbon mid/tweeter and woofer combo.....almost like martin-logans.

Just seems odd to comapre two different designs like that...it's about as bad as comparing them to avant-garde.
 
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warnerwh

Full Audioholic
Steve: You're correct in saying the designs are different but they do both use planar magnetic drivers over almost all of the audible range.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I agree, they aren't comparing the speaker system as a whole, but rather the drivers, which are of the same design principles. Now it looks like I have more speakers to look into.

With regard to wire and such,

VMPS says that all components undergo breakin, including wires. Uhh, right. While they aren't sitting there harping on people to buy $3k cables, they are kinda pushing a little voodoo. But then again, Parts Express is a great company, even though they sell some voodoo cables. But, business is business and you've gotta make money.
 
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drseid

Audiophyte
I think if you look at VMPS from a "value for the money" based on driver cost, etc., it is hard to argue against their value at the prices charged...

Performance-wise, I heard one of the large models at THE Show in Vegas this year... I think it may have been the RM40 (I would have asked Brian, but I think he was asleep in the room while I was there, and I did not want to wake him)... I confess that I was completely unimpressed. The bass was just overpowering everything, and I just did not care for the overall sound at all...

To be fair though, the room was on the smallish side, and those speakers could not possibly be optimal for that size room. I am sure in a smaller room they would have sounded much better... Would they sound better *enough* to make me like them...? I guess I will have to try them again later to find out. :)

---Dave
 
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tazmanian

Audiophyte
I have one of their subwoofer for a longtime now, and I couldn't be happier. Yeah, I could say they know their speaker. If I have money, I would buy their product in a heartbeat.
 
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denverdoc

Enthusiast
As to highly colored, I stand by my original assessment, not that I had a mic but had 200 other set-ups for reference--this is a more subtle use of the boom-honk-sizzle approach. Just one mans opinion and unlike all the reviewers mentioned, have nothing at stake nor any axe yo grind. I wanted hard to like these speakers (RM-30's)
John
 
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warnerwh

Full Audioholic
denverdoc said:
As to highly colored, I stand by my original assessment, not that I had a mic but had 200 other set-ups for reference--this is a more subtle use of the boom-honk-sizzle approach. Just one mans opinion and unlike all the reviewers mentioned, have nothing at stake nor any axe yo grind. I wanted hard to like these speakers (RM-30's)
John
So you're saying you sat down and gave all 200 set ups a fair listen? Without qualifying your statement it is truly meaningless. Honk and sizzle? I've never heard a speaker sound so much like the performers are right there in my life, nor have numerous other people. If you wanted to like them maybe you should give them a second chance and audition where they are set up properly, etc. :confused:
 
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denverdoc

Enthusiast
No I did not listen to all 200--perhaps 60 or so over the 2 days I attended based on word of mouth or advance press I had to make some touph choices. The VMPS suite I visited 3 times in the hopes that I was missing something on the earlier encounters. And there were no shortage of ne plus ultra references for ear calibration.

I heard what I heard, and IMO there were any number of far better, more natural sounds coming from a number of less expensive systems. Just one mans opinion but you seem hell bent on discrediting it. Not sure why. There is plenty of support for Mr Cheney's designs on this thread already, but any dissenting voice seems to be a point of personal attack. Curious?
John
 
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warnerwh

Full Audioholic
The fact you started out by calling Brian Cheney a "fruit" did not bode well with me. Personally I find mudslinging for no reason uncalled for. Brian is an unusually considerate person and a gentleman. His customer service is excellent as you areprobably aware of. It's easy to criticize, anybody can do it.

I visit this site as I enjoy it. This website has an excellent set of standards for the members. The new people get a quality knowledge base imo. Much better than many high end sites. Another reason is the enjoyment of being able to help others as I can tell there's alot of members here who aren't as aware of the audio world as some of us. Letting some of these people know there's a whole world out there besides Paradigm, Klipsch, B&W, etc is a pleasure. The amount of high quality products for less money than what can be found at Best Buy or Circuit City is quite large. There are numerous speaker manufacturers that can cover anybody's taste in any price class. Hopefully I can help make at least a few people aware of this. And when it's time for me to upgrade my home theater these same people can help me pick a HD tv.

VMPS makes what has been well established as one of the best lines of speakers for their price categories as can be found on the planet and you seem intent on dissing them. The planar midrange sounds so real it can be eerie and the bass had been called "best bass for the buck" in the high end world for numerous years. Like I stated earlier, plenty of speakers exist to cover everybody but some have proven to be outstanding for the prices and VMPS is one of them. Many great companies exist and don't spend a fortune on full color ads in multiple magazines so many people aren't aware of them. These are the companies I think more people should at least check out as they may be well rewarded for their efforts. I'd like to see an end to the overpriced rip offs that are all too common in the audio world.
 
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denverdoc

Enthusiast
There is no use arguing this point--some of the finest ears on the planet find the product lacking and Mr, Cheney's dogmatic adherence to some questionable principles as in matching caps to that kind of tolerance earn him the distinction of eccentric, if not fruit. Obviously you like what you like, I am not intent on "dissing" him, only making readers aware there is a wide spectrum of opinions re his products and engineering aptitude. By all means let the ears decide, mine did. I have owned half a dozen Stereophile class A speakers over the years--not that they are the arbiters of good taste, but a fairly reliable benchmark at least when it comes to class a inclusion, so I know good audio.

Also I had as mentioned direct access to many competing products. Brian may be a wonderful guy, as you suggest, doesn't mean we should all buy his speakers.
John
 
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