video upscaling - better in receiver or TV?

[scott911]

Hi,

First, thanks for great site and forum. I'm learning alot.

A read of the article about upscaling in the AV university of this site has got me thinking about the topic of upscaling and how to most wisely spend my money on BOTH a new LCD screen and reciever.

According to the article from April, generally speaking, only one component needs to upscale video - from non-HD cable box feed to 1080P HDTV display.

The article recommended that the user do a series of A to B test with their equipment to see which existing component upscaled the best - and turn off anything else upstream...

So, here's my question: If I'm in the neighborhood for BOTH a reciever AND a LCD Hi Def flat panel at the same time, I obviously can't do an A to B test, but if one class of equipment is generally better at the job, then maybe I can save money on the other peice of equipment's spec. My gut tells me that a deceint reciever will do a better job at upscaling than some circuitry crammed into a mid-level flat panel, but I've read "avoid the middle man" (reciever) a lot in this forum as well...

Thanks.

If it matters, this is what I'm looking at system wise:
Axiom Architectual series with W22's - wonderful, done deal

still to get : Possibly a Denon reciever - maybe the AVR 888 or AVR 2308. One of the big differences going up or down market is the on-board video processing capabilities. I'd like to think this is reciever money is well spent and the processing won't just be all done most effectively in a the LCD panel - like the Sharp 46" LCD 1080P I'm considering.

 

[fmw]

It may not relate to the equipment you have but I can tell you my cheap receiver upscales a whole lot better than my expensive TV.

 

[markw]

Seriously...

It totally depends on which does a better job of upscaling. Unless you can find someone who has both items, there's no way to get a real answer.

Upscaling/upconversion in a receiver is more of a convenience than a performance issue, IMNSHO.

But, generally, the fewer active links in the chain the better.

Good TV's generally do a good job.

but, FWIW, I have an upscaling DVD player and between the TV's internal upscaler and the DVD's upscaler, I can't be sure there's a difference.

 

[DavidG]

In my recent experiences when looking at receivers that upscale to 1080p I found that the difference between the receiver and a decent tv upscaling to 1080p is minimal. In fact, I think that if anything a good tv does a better job of upscaling than the receiver I have seen do it. The main advantage in my opinion is the ability and convenience of video switching through HDMI. Currently, my tv upscales incoming signals and I use a digital optical connection to my receiver for audio. I see no need at this time to purchase another receiver that upscales to 1080p, but I do miss having HDMI switching.

 

[solomr2]

I have a 50" 1080p Samsung 5084 plasma panel, Denon 3808 receiver, and Comcast Motorola DVR. Just last night I was tangling with this very issue.

From my experiments it seems to me the Samsung does a better job of upscaling than my Denon. But I also discovered there is no real easy way to turn off the video processing in the Denon.

When I first hooked them up I had the Comcast DVR sending a 1080i signal to the Denon, and then the Denon was outputing a 1080p signal over HDMI to the TV. The results were noticably inferior to a direct connection between the DVR and the TV. I then changed the Denon to "Auto", which appears to output the signal in the resolution it gets it in, but still appears to do some kind of processing of the signal before it passes it to the TV. This allows the TV to handle the conversion of the signal to progressive. While this improved the PQ quite a bit, it still doesn't look as good as going direct from the DVR to the TV, but they are very close.

I think each component should be evaluated indivually to really determine which one does a better job. I think the upscaling in my Samsung is very good, and it seems superior to the Denon DCDI chip, but I've yet to compare how well a good upscaling DVD compares to it. I'm still shopping around for HD or BD DVD player, and while upscaling is not a key deciding featuer, it will be fun to compare which does a better job between the three components.

 

[scott911]

thanks

Hmmm, that's eye opening.

I was planning on spending more than I thought I needed to on a reciever to get a bleed edge Denon with Faroudja video processing. If I can count on the LCD to do that, perhaps I can go with a year old or so reciever model with more basic HDMI pass-though switching to simply retain the convenience factor.

Does the group think soemthing like Sharp's fairly low end "Sharp Aquos LC-46D62U" - a 46" at about $1500 has quality upconversion capabilities?

Perhaps it goes without saying, but a lot of the "TV" we watch comes in standard Def, and I'm just trying to configure a system that doesn't make it look like I'm watching an Atari Pong match on a beautiful new LCD...

 

[DavidG]

I am not sure about the Sharp's upscaling capabilities, but I don't think the Aquos line is "fairly low end." Unless you are talking specifically about model LC-46D62U compared to the newer units in the Aquos line.

Just remember the saying "garbage in/garbage out." If you are trying to take old, grainy, 480i standard def material and expect it to come out looking like 1080p quality HD or Blueray you are in for a real suprise. There are some very well recorded 480i programs that can be upscaled to look pretty good, but don't expect a miracle.

Where upscaling excels is when you have HD tv broadcast at 720p or 1080i and it is upscaled to 1080p. This is the material that looks incredible. Also, newer, decently recorded standard definition dvd's can be upscaled to look quite good.

 

[solomr2]

You really have to test it and see for yourself if the upscaling in that specific TV does a decent job. From my experience, LCD is a little less forgiving that Plasma when it comes to upconverting 480i SD material.

Also, for about $1500 you can get the 50" Panasonic 77U (720p) plasma, which I think is a better value.