Video Processing in DVD Players, Receivers and Displays

A

admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
It has come to our attention many times in the past that people are generally confused about video processing. They are confused about which components are responsible for doing what, and they are confused about which products should receive the most attention. If you are confused - you're not alone. If you don't think you're confused, you probably should be.


Discuss "Video Processing in DVD Players, Receivers and Displays" here. View the article at:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/video-processing-in-dvd-players-receivers-and-displays.
 
B

bower

Audiophyte
What about 768p?

Good article and very informative. But what happens when you have a 768p display? To use your models, it would seem that taking a 480i (or 480p) from a DVD directly to the display would prevent double-scaling.

However, some displays scale better than others, in which case external scaling to 720p and letting the display handle the 720 --> 768 conversion may be the best. And what of 1080i? I've read that some scalers take 1080i down to 540p then back up to 720p!

Given the popularity of 768p displays, it's too bad that that is not a common output option, nor will very many displays accept a 768p input. Makes for mass confusion - and it appears double-scaling is inevitable.

In my case, I have an older 480i only DVD feeding into a Denon 4306, to a PRO1140 plasma. I have run all the combinations I can using the HQV disk. Some tests pass one combo and other pass a different combo. In the end, they all end up with a similar final score.

What would REALLY help is: Using the HQV score card as a guide, some kind of reference to tell us which score is really important is needed, so one can determine which compromise to live with.

-Dave
 
Archivist

Archivist

Audiophyte
Mr. DeBoer:

Great Article and confirms what has taken a long time with lots of reading to ferret out! Several thoughts for follow-up articles:

Without stepping on toes, it would be useful to give examples of the various pieces (vendors, models) of equipment that might follow in the categories of your 2 scenarios and perhaps describe the appropriate links (HDMI/Component) DVD > Receiver/Pre-Amp (Amp) > Processor > TV/Projector or DVD > Processor w/Audio out (HDMI/Digital SPDif)/Toslink) to Receiver/Pre-Amp (Amp) and Processor Direct >Tv/Projector.

As you noted, special cases such as Anamorphic 2.35:1 would be useful for those of us attempting to set up those systems both functionally and efficiently as well as economically!

Finally, I would love to have some suggestions for converting computer saved (ie MCE Movies/DVR-PVR) or the upcoming IPTV content. In keeping with the intent of the article, how best to get the least "processed" output from a computer then transfer to that "digitally" to a Processor. I am aware of a few of the newer computer video cards with HDMI out, but a number of inexpensive cards have DVI which could be converted to HDMI and the Audio could be sent to a Receiver/Pre-Amp separately (Digital/Toslink). That also brings up another potential anomally with anything in the "chain" how to sync the Audio/Video streams especially if processed separately.

Again thanks for great article, I look forward to further information.

Warmly,

Dave
 
J

Jim E.

Enthusiast
Overall a good article to give you the basics of video processing.

However, it's going to take some research by the consumer/end user to make the best of whatever processor he/she chooses.

Ideally, you would want to use an external processor and have it do all the processing. Most DVD players don't even have the capability to put out native resolutions to 42" (1024x768) and 50" (1366x768) plasmas for example. In fact, neither do most receivers.

I think the best approach is to work backwards from your display. If you're in the market then that's even better because you should look for a display that can accept its native resolution through its HDMI input. Look for words like 1:1 pixel, dot by dot or dot for dot in the owner's manual.

For example, most 42" plasmas on the market today have a native resolution 1024x768 and they don't accept this resolution through their HDMi input which limits you to the VGA input - assuming your processor has either a component or vga and can output that native resolution.

This means giving up some of the advantages of HDMI too.

It always seems simple until you realize the limits manufacturers have on the equipment.

Moral of the story, do your research first! :)

Cheers,
Jim
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Thank You

That was a very informative read.
 
E

ericlhyman

Audioholic Intern
Reon Video Processor in AV Receivers

Which brands of AV receivers that will be released this year are expected to have the reon video processor? How well does the reon handle block noise and mosquito noise reduction? In other words, would the reon make it unnecessary to get an algolith flea or pixelmagic noise reduction unit?
 

ronnie 1.8

Audioholic
Most DVD players don't even have the capability to put out native resolutions to 42" (1024x768) and 50" (1366x768) plasmas for example.
Yes. I have an excellent DVD player, the Denon 3930CI, yet even it does not output 768p. Come on Denon. Surely you could have added that feature, considering the cost of this unit.

So I have mine outputting 720p, so the player is performing the deinterlacing, and scaling, and the monitor must also scale from 720p to 768p, if I have this right. My AVR does not support HDMI, so I have HDMI out from my player directly to my monitor.

And the TiVo S3 has the same limitations, in that it can output 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, or native. I choose 720p fixed for all video output by my TiVo, but 768p would have been nice...

I also agree w/ your statement of external video processor. That is on my wish list of future upgrades.

Cheers...
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
From the article, Pg. "How to Determine Who is Doing the Processing ",

Scenario 2: DVD > Receiver > Processor > Display = What a Picture!

The receiver is a mid-level unit whose real purpose is to provide excellent video quality, not provide fancy video conversions. Output: Passed-through 480i or bypassed altogether.
I believe this should be "audio".

Great article. Really helps understand how to actually utilize the gear, not just own it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Clint DeBoer

Clint DeBoer

Banned
Great feedback everyone - thanks. I think there is room for several follow-up articles. 768p is something that a lot of players have missed the boat on.
 
N

NainoKami

Audioholic Intern
The 3930 can actually output the following in "PC RES":

VGA 640x480 (Default)
XGA 1024x768
WXGA 1280x768
SXGA 1280x1024
All at 60 Hz

It might be worth a try to see if matching the horizontal lines in the output resolution to the display will make an improvement.

/Simon

Yes. I have an excellent DVD player, the Denon 3930CI, yet even it does not output 768p. Come on Denon. Surely you could have added that feature, considering the cost of this unit.

So I have mine outputting 720p, so the player is performing the deinterlacing, and scaling, and the monitor must also scale from 720p to 768p, if I have this right. My AVR does not support HDMI, so I have HDMI out from my player directly to my monitor.

And the TiVo S3 has the same limitations, in that it can output 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, or native. I choose 720p fixed for all video output by my TiVo, but 768p would have been nice...

I also agree w/ your statement of external video processor. That is on my wish list of future upgrades.

Cheers...
 
T

thegreenline

Enthusiast
How about CRT RPTV's

I have a Hitachi 46F500 RP CRT TV, this will not be replaced in the near future. My question is does all the stuff in the article apply to RP CRT?

Also how would I find out what the native resolution is for this TV?

Thanks
 
O

ouchakov

Enthusiast
So many output formats, what's to use ?

Good article. I liked how it was laid out.

I am still a bit confused on processing options. I recently bought a new Integra DTR 8.9 Receiver, and I am looking forward to using its Reon chip with my DVD changers, but was should I set the output to?

My DLP TV is a 720p / 1080i TV, and I usually leave it at 720p.
My Dish outputs 1080i (I tried outputting 720p and it looks worse)
My DVD changers can output anything (480i, 720p, 1080i), but their scaling/processing was rated subpar

I am contemplating having the receiver output of 720p, but I am not sure what I should feed it from the sources if I want to utilize the power of Reon chip.

I am thinking outputting 480i from all sources to have my receiver to do all the work, as recommended in the article, the question is, will this limit the amount of details (data) output from my Dish and DVDs if I limit output to 480i, shouldn't I feed my receiver 1080i and let it do video processing? :eek:

I wanted to see what smart people think :)

I will, of course, tinker with the settings when I set it up and pick the best one and report on it, but I wanted to see what people think.

Cheers,

- O
 
Clint DeBoer

Clint DeBoer

Banned
480i is best with the only exception being with HD sources. Some set-top boxes will output 480i and then output 1080i automatically when an HD signal is received. Cjeck the user manual (you might have to track it down online). Ideally, you want the native output on all sources with a good processor like yours.

With that said, your TV is likely 720p native and merely supports 1080i. As a result, set the AV receiver to output 720p.
 
O

ouchakov

Enthusiast
DTR 8.9 Reon processing of native source

As a follow up on my earlier post, I had a chance to connect my DTR 8.9 to my Sony changers. It appears that via HDMI output, the best option is to feed the 8.9 1080i signal, otherwise, the picture appears blotchy on my TV. I have 8.9 outputting 720p to my TV. I don't see much difference on my Samsung between 1080i and 720p, so I went with native resolution. I will post my impressions of the receiver as a separate thread. I hope Clint and the gang will have a chance to review new Integra receivers. It looks like there are a lot of options that are available to professional installers to calibrate all home theater sources. I would be interested in Audioholics opinions on those.

Thanks for advice, Clint, but my Sony changers don't output clean 480i via HDMI ... ;-(

Cheers,

- A
 

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