VERY telling review of HD-DVD

[supervij]

Check out the April 20 Daily Column, the one entitled "HD-DVD Day Three" -- some very interesting comments about HD-DVD. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/

I'm kinda disappointed, but also mildly relieved. Not entirely sure why . . .

cheers,
supervij

 

[corey]

I just went & counted my DVD's. I've bought about 110, plus some I can't count behind my TV. I've had an HD display for 3 years & I'm sick & tired of waiting for HD software. My plan is not to buy any more DVD's until there is one HD format.

 

[Highgear]

I found this too.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=669410

 

[steinoch]

I just went & counted my DVD's. I've bought about 110, plus some I can't count behind my TV. I've had an HD display for 3 years & I'm sick & tired of waiting for HD software. My plan is not to buy any more DVD's until there is one HD format.

I support that!

I'm guessing alot more feel the same way. I am disappointed at the limitations and disappointed that these companies are too greedy to make a decision that is in the best interest of the consumers.

My recommendation to you is to keep your 110+ and buy a nice home theater computer that can make 480p look like 540p/1080i. I have yet to meet anyone who has not agreed that my HTPC playing standard DVDs looks like high def(720p). And as I have stated many times before i have direct comparison to HBO HD, IND HD Discovery etc.

I am going to wait until there is one format and it is providing 1080p. Then I'll make the investment not only for the DVD player but for a new projector that projects 1080p

 

[Geno]

I sure hafta agree with the sentiments here...I have a 50" plasma HDTV with the Dish HD feeds. The picture quality is superb, but, so is the PQ with my (200+)DVDs. I'd have pretty hard time justifying the expense of jumping into this new format for whatever tiny improvement it might give.
I feel the industry decision-makers who stuck to their greedy, stubborn plans are going to regret this boondoggle.

 

[Jedi2016]

I was at Best Buy just now, and stopped by their little HD-DVD setup. They had a Toshiba HD-A1 hooked up to one of those Westinghouse 1080p LCDs that Clint just reviewed.

The only "big" improvement I saw was the overall image resolution. Given that the television was no doubt incorrectly calibrated. The color was nice, image was nice and sharp for the most part (1080i output), but didn't really look any different from the HD feeds that the store has going to the other HDTVs.

One thing I did notice was the compression. It was some generic demo disc they were playing, not one of the movies, but still.. you think they could all but eliminate compression artifacting, what with all the new codecs and all that disc space. But they didn't, not even close.

The clerk did say that the HD-A1 has sold out across the country, but he also pointed out that most Best Buy stores recieved only three units apiece (not sure if that counts the display unit or not). So that's not really saying much. He also agreed with me on the ignorance (or just plain stupidity) of the people who bought them.. what with the format war looming and all. He agreed that the best thing to do is precisely what I'm already planning to do... wait until the format war is decided, and for the prices to come down.

I did like the TV, though.

 

[Max997]

I was at Best Buy just now, and stopped by their little HD-DVD setup. They had a Toshiba HD-A1 hooked up to one of those Westinghouse 1080p LCDs that Clint just reviewed.

The only "big" improvement I saw was the overall image resolution. Given that the television was no doubt incorrectly calibrated. The color was nice, image was nice and sharp for the most part (1080i output), but didn't really look any different from the HD feeds that the store has going to the other HDTVs.

One thing I did notice was the compression. It was some generic demo disc they were playing, not one of the movies, but still.. you think they could all but eliminate compression artifacting, what with all the new codecs and all that disc space. But they didn't, not even close.

The clerk did say that the HD-A1 has sold out across the country, but he also pointed out that most Best Buy stores recieved only three units apiece (not sure if that counts the display unit or not). So that's not really saying much. He also agreed with me on the ignorance (or just plain stupidity) of the people who bought them.. what with the format war looming and all. He agreed that the best thing to do is precisely what I'm already planning to do... wait until the format war is decided, and for the prices to come down.

I did like the TV, though.

A DVD player that produces a picture like any HD feed is still better then any other player currently out there.

I dont put any credence into what anyone that works at Best Buy says. I have yet to talk to anyone there that has a clue to what they are talking about. I bought a Digital Camera there before and the guy told me I needed a card for it because the camera couldnt save any pictures without it


I bought the player and the movies and I dont regret it, the picture is amazing. The remote blows and the response is slow but that was to be expected

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Great read supervij. That's an eye opening article. The editor's wife really drives a knife into your heart, doesn't she?

From the little I know about film, I can tell you everything depends on the camera resolution and softening techniques directors, producers, and editors use in their final cut. Rarely do we get a full flick with no picture softening or some type of filter. No actor wants his audience to see every zit or imperfection on his face. Nor does the director want us to see the stunt double in the action scenes. Lets hope Hollywood takes advantage of this technology, and limits filters so we can see these new films in true HD fashion.

 

[Jedi2016]

I dont put any credence into what anyone that works at Best Buy says. I have yet to talk to anyone there that has a clue to what they are talking about.

You're talking about technical matters. But if he says they only got three units in, and sold them all.. who am I to argue? And he didn't actually recommend the "waiting on the format war" thing.. he was agreeing with me after I said it. Read a bit before dismissing it out of hand.

As for not "regretting" your decision... I'll bet you'll regret it plenty if the HD-DVD format is dead in the next year or two. Just be comforted by all of the movies you won't be able to watch by all of the studios who don't support HD-DVD.

 

[Max997]

You're talking about technical matters. But if he says they only got three units in, and sold them all.. who am I to argue? And he didn't actually recommend the "waiting on the format war" thing.. he was agreeing with me after I said it. Read a bit before dismissing it out of hand.

As for not "regretting" your decision... I'll bet you'll regret it plenty if the HD-DVD format is dead in the next year or two. Just be comforted by all of the movies you won't be able to watch by all of the studios who don't support HD-DVD.

I knew exectly what I was reading cool guy, the people at Best Buy dont know jack so their opinion means nothing to me and surprised it means something to you

I wont regret anything, if I use this player for a year and have to change over then I will, no big deal. Its not like this player only plays HD DVDs, I could easliy use it in another room if I replace it.

 

[Jedi2016]

Then you're a richer man than I, if owning a $500 paperweight means nothing to you.

And you're still not getting the point... you keep rambling on about Best Buy employees, but read it yet again... he never gave me his opinion. Why do you keep harping on something that I'm not even talking about?

 

[Max997]

you really dont make any sense. How would it be a paperweight if Im using it and will continue to use it even if I replace it in my theater and put it in my living room???

you're also missing the point, you were bragging about the clerk at best buy agreeing with you on the ignorance (or just plain stupidity) of the people who bought them. The clerk at best buy is most likely an 18 year old kid still living with his parents and doesnt own an HDTV. Who in their right mind cares what these guys think.

dont rip the technology or the people who buy it just because you cant afford it. 500 bucks is not a lot of money for a player these days


Im not going to argue with you about this anymore

 

[jonnythan]

The guy was watching them on a 720p projector.

 

[Jedi2016]

you really dont make any sense. How would it be a paperweight if Im using it and will continue to use it even if I replace it in my theater and put it in my living room???

Because if the format dies, you're stuck with only the movies you have for it. Everything else will be on Blu-Ray. Money really has very little to do with it. I can afford the box easily enough, I'm just not prepared to have that money wasted if HD-DVD ends up dead. Which is quite likely, in case you haven't been following the format war.

Fact is, there are a lot more people that agree with me on the "waiting" idea. Are you saying the folks at the Bits aren't qualified to say that? The folks on practically every video forum from here to Timbuktu? Just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else does. Regardless of what you may think, your decision to jump head first into an uncertain format is rash and ultimately foolish. Especially considering you've essentially bought a bottom-of-the-barrel unit that you'll end up replacing in a couple years anyway, even if the format survives that long. Hell, the thing couldn't even play at the full resolution of the TV they had it hooked up to. And they call it "HD". Hmph.

 

[MDS]

The early adopters pay for all the research and development costs. *IF* the format survives or becomes a unified standard, future players will be cheaper and more reliable.

Based on the review and other scuttlebutt I would say the initial players are exactly like any other new technology. They are high-priced and overly flawed. If you want to be the first on the block to say you got an HD player, go for it, but there are more valid reasons to avoid the first (and second) generation of players than there are to jump right in and buy now.

 

[WndrBr3d]

My opinion on the HD/Blu-Ray DVD is that I'm filing this technology in the same category as OGG, AAC or any other audio codec that in competition with MP3 for mass consumer use.

Sure, technologically these formats will yield better compression and about 15-20% higher quality music, but will the quality ALONE be enough for consumers to convert/switch over to these new formats?

Like the article said, DVD was light-years beyond VHS and Laserdisc. Chapter Selection, Menu Navigation, Multiple Language Tracks, Multiple Angles, etc., etc.

What does HD-DVD offer over DVD? High Definition Audio and Video (I'm sure there might be some other technical enhancements, but for consumers this is it).

So does this quality enhancement alone necessitate the upgrade from DVD to HD-DVD? I don't think so. My best estimate is that DVD and HD-DVD will live side by side as VHS and Laserdisc did. VHS being implemented by 90% of consumers and dominating the video market, and Laserdisc owned by a minority looking for the best quality sound a picture that money can buy.

Of course, that's just my $0.02

 

[KC23]

My guess is whoever comes out with a dvd that plays both formats with a decent price will be what most get. That is what I'm waiting for ... but gotta be a decent price.

Until then my money is going to improve my audio and tv.

 

[LEVESQUE]

The majority of people out there using the HD-DVD players simply don't have the display and the processing power to really appreciate the difference.

Almost every 720p displays out there, be it a projector or a TV, are downscaling the signal to 540p first, then scaling to 720p. That's the reason why people are disappointed. It's not the HD-DVD player's fault.

I have a 1080p projector and a Gennum processor performing true 1080i/p conversion and the difference in PQ is unbelievable.

All the 720p/1080i displays owners will be disappointed because of the displays internal sub-par video processing. It's not the player's fault... but a display problem.

The small CRT sets tend to only be able to do about 800 lines x 1080... roughly 40% of the HD potential. You will get about 800000 pixels ... versus the 350,000 you see on DVD.

Gennum VXP and Realta HQV are the only chip out there bringing everything to 1080p first then downscaling to 720p. Everything else out there is doing 1080i to 540p then 720p. That's why the difference is not "big".

If someone thinks that the upscaling of a 480i signal to 1080i/p even with the best HTPC out there can be "near" what those HD-DVD players can do, it's because they simply don't have the video chain they would need to appreciate the difference.

Sad but true...

 

[Max997]

Levesque....what projector do you have?

1080p would be nice, dont think I'll have that anytime soon though

 

[LEVESQUE]

Levesque....what projector do you have?

Sony "Ruby" VPL-VW100. 3 chips SXRD, 1080p.

Just click on my link in my signature to see my system and some screenshots.