Very basic question - Amp - with or without Surround?

[FrankinMun]

Hi all,

Please forgive such a simple question but I am relatively new to this area. I am in the market to buy a new amplifier in and around the 1400 dollar range.

The amplifiers which I considered were:

Harmon Kardon 630
Yamaha RX-V 2500

I primarily would like to use it to listen to music. For me the surround sound was a bonus, but not a necessity. I have recently been told that the quality of sound for music produced by receivers which have home cinema functionality is substantially lower than that of a receiver without surround sound.

Firstly, is this true? If yes could someone suggest some models I could consider?

Thanks

 

[Resident Loser]

Trade-offs...

...first, a little background, so you know from whence I come...

I'm into stereo...IMHO HT is what has caused the ruination of reasonably priced two-channel gear...sooo, with that in mind, I'll continue...

You are currently comparing apples and oranges IMO...a $350, 50Wpc integrated amp(HK) and a $800, 130WpcX7 HT receiver...me, I'd go for the HK...IF I didn't need a tuner section...

You touched on it in your post...something as complex, with what seems to have all the bells and whistles for HT as the Yamaha has , has to make some trade-offs...it's basically the same rationale for those of us who prefer separates...separate chassis, with separate power supplies, discrete components as opposed to a mass of ICs...in this instance on a lesser scale.

Question: What do you want to do...now and ultimately? What do you intend to connect as sources? How big is your budget for extra loudspeakers, etc. for a HT venture?

I recently did some checking around for reasonably priced, stereo-only gear with inputs/outputs and switching functions I require and was quite disappointed in what I discovered...again, I blame it on the mass-market, near hysteria for HT...lousy movies, mechanical dinosaurs and bigger and better explosions!!! But I digress...

Marantz has a model 4320 receiver with 80Wpc, a phono input, pre-out/power-in but no true "tape mon" function...around $400 as I recall...

If the integrated route is where you want to go, they also have their PM7200 which puts out 95Wpc OR 25Wpc of class A power...also has pretty much all the connectivity one can ask for(if that matters) around $500 I think...only recently made available in the US, it's been around a while in Europe and has gotten some good press...

Then there is Onkyo with two receivers the 8211, 50Wpc and the 8511@100Wpc...both less than $300-400...in that range....both have phono-ins, but no pre-out/pwr-in...possible a "tape mon" on the 8511...I'm gettin' older and my memory is ...huh! what!...I'd buy the 8511 myself if I didn't need the "pre/pow" connectors...as an aside, my current low-priced tweeky-toy is their MC35TECH mini-system with their WRAT scheme, rated @20Wpc into 4Ohms...I'm impressed.

Anywho...there's my input...it's strictly opinion based on my parameters, yours may differ...and there may be others who will poo-poo and pish-tosh my choices...to them I say la-de-dah!

jimHJJ(...good luck and good listening...)

P.S. Forgot to mention the Denon DRA-685, 100Wpc@$499...another good choice for 2ch music IMO...

P.P.S. And now of course, after a more robust search of the net, I find you meant the HK AVR630 not just 630...which makes a bit more sense in the comparison...a toss-up IMO for HT...the rest of my post stands as is...

 

[BMXTRIX]

If stereo is your goal, why not look at a piece like the Rotel RC-1090 and go with an outboard 2 channel amp?

While the above poster clearly doesn't like surround receivers, actual tests of a lot of surround receivers show very high quality in many products - but it still is personal preference. If your room is dedicated to two-channel audio, then you should put your cash towards that entirely. If you plan on hooking up a DVD player and may wish to dwell into the world of surround, then by all means, look at the Denon/Yamaha/Pioneer direction and you will get a lot of bang for the buck. Bottom line with these companies is that they stay ahead by putting more and better stuff in their receivers every year than the prior year. They stay in business by putting high quality stuff out and the words 'substantially lower quality' most definitely do not apply. But, perceptibly lower quality may be an accurate description.

At $1400.00ish for just the receiver, you would likely be much happier and receive better performance by using a separate pre-amp and amplifier in a stereo/music only setup. You are hard pressed at that price to get a good surround pre-amp / amplifier setup, but stereo falls right into that range and will do an excellent job.

Take a look at www.rotel.com for some ideas - and go to a good A/V store in your area and look at stereo only pre-amps and amp setups. Locally we have a stereo ONLY store. No surround receivers in the entire store... blows me away.

 

[Resident Loser]

Which is all very well...

...if you want to spend 1200 clams on a pre-amp...how much will a poweramp of "commensurate" er, qualifications cost?

Rotel may be fine gear, I'll not debate the point, but it has a limited distributorship limiting price competition, which to my mind equates to audio "salons" with their nose-in-the-air sales staff and an equally pretentious customer base who only want the "best"(read: expensive)...no on line or mail order either...

"...While the above poster clearly doesn't like surround receivers..."

What was your first clue?

IMO it's(HT) just another ploy for manufacturers to rake it in by convincing the gullible they just can't live without it...like cell-phones and $6 cups of coffee...

"....more and better stuff in their receivers every year than the prior year..."

Where I come from it's called "planned obsolescence"!

jimHJJ(...but then again, that's just me...)

 

[BMXTRIX]

You can definitely find good deals on Rotel if a person interested looks around. But, as I said, he should listen to it and try some different options. He isn't on a $500.00 budget, but has a little more to spend - why not spend it on finer equipment? I worked at a place (prior to where I am now) that dealt with Rotel and just like Yamaha doesn't want their RX-V series sold online, Rotel doesn't want their gear sold online so they are able to provide a more direct and professional experience to all customers. If a person walks into an A/V store, makes a salesperson show them 40 different receivers, then goes out and buys it for 25% less online then from that store, then someone needs a morality check.

Anyways... I don't know about planned obsolenscence. DVD's fall into that category, VHS as well... The 19" television... Your car. Everything is improved upon and manufacturers do well against competition by giving consumers more value for their dollar.

Many people these days would call stereo part of planned obsolesence...

 

[ruadmaa]

"I have recently been told that the quality of sound for music produced by receivers which have home cinema functionality is substantially lower than that of a receiver without surround sound."

I seriously doubt that anyone could tell the difference between a dedicated two channel amp/receiver and an equally powerful per channel home theatre amp/receiver being run in the two channel mode.

 

[Nick250]

"I have recently been told that the quality of sound for music produced by receivers which have home cinema functionality is substantially lower than that of a receiver without surround sound."

I seriously doubt that anyone could tell the difference between a dedicated two channel amp/receiver and an equally powerful per channel home theatre amp/receiver being run in the two channel mode.

I have to agree with ruadmaa on this.