using A/V receiver & integrated amp

[dekaliber]

I'm pretty new to hi-fi and I'm curious how the connections for a system with an A/V receiver for movies AND a stereo integrated amplifier for music would work. I could get by with just an A/V receiver, but since most of the time the system will be used for music, I want to get a decent dedicated stereo amplifier and skimp a bit on the receiver, if necessary.

Since I work better with examples, let's say I'm getting an Onkyo TX-SR805 A/V receiver, a NAD C372 integrated stereo receiver, and a 5.1 set of speakers. My source will be a DVD/blu-ray player for movies and a Squeezebox network music player for music.

Now, which components do the sources connect to? I would think that the Squeezebox would connect to the NAD integrated via RCA jacks (to always use the integrated's pre-amp and amp sections), and the DVD/blu-ray would connect to the Onkyo receiver with HDMI.

Following that logic, I would think then that the front stereo speakers would always be connected to the NAD integrated, and the center/surround/sub connect to the Onkyo receiver. But, how would I "access" the front speakers while I'm watching a movie? I would think that there is a more elegant solution than unplugging them from the integrated and plugging them into the receiver!

Would I use the Onkyo's pre-out plugs for the front L/R channels and send those to the NAD integrated? What would they connect to -- one of the source jacks in the back (e.g. video) or the "main in?" (This is where I get confused.) It seems weird to be driving speakers with different amps. Would the volume still be controlled by the receiver for all channels or would the fronts be significantly louder since they are driven by a more powerful amplifier?

 

[Seth=L]

Is your "system" going to be using the same front left and right speakers for music and movies? If so, I see no reason why you should buy an integrated amp and a receiver.

The Yamaha RX-V663 has a fair amount of power (not at the level of the Onkyo, but the Onkyo has a list of issues that have been mentioned on the forums quite a bit, most notably heat dissapation is very high on the TX-SR805). The Yamaha has preouts so you could easily connect a Power amplifier (not an integrated like the NAD you mentioned) to it to get higher output capability. The preamp section in the Yamaha is very good as is the amp section (meaning you may not need seperate amplification depending on what speakers you get/have).

 

[PENG]

You can connect the main in to the 905's front L/R pre-outs. If you do that you will be using the C372 as a power amplifier and all your sources should be connected to the 805's inputs.

The C372 and the 805 may not have exactly the same gain so to make sure all 5 channel output levels are balanced, you should re-calibrate them using a SPL meter.

 

[dekaliber]

Is your "system" going to be using the same front left and right speakers for music and movies? If so, I see no reason why you should buy an integrated amp and a receiver.

The Yamaha RX-V663 has a fair amount of power (not at the level of the Onkyo, but the Onkyo has a list of issues that have been mentioned on the forums quite a bit, most notably heat dissapation is very high on the TX-SR805). The Yamaha has preouts so you could easily connect a Power amplifier (not an integrated like the NAD you mentioned) to it to get higher output capability. The preamp section in the Yamaha is very good as is the amp section (meaning you may not need seperate amplification depending on what speakers you get/have).

I was looking at the Yamaha RX-V1800 also when I was in the single-unit-does-all mindset. I was planning to do some A/B tests comparing it with a integrated stereo amp so see how it affects sound quality. I'm planning to get PSB Synchronys (most like Twos) which I've heard can be a bit picky with regard to electronics. Everything I've heard about the NAD suggests that it's neutral with plenty of power to drive higher resistance speakers.

So if I use the receiver's pre-outs and keep the sources connected to the receiver, does that means I'll be using the receiver's preamp section for both music and movies? Any way I can skip the A/V receiver's circuitry altogether when listening to music?

 

[AVRat]

Yamaha 1800 manual

Use the Pure Direct mode to enjoy the pure fidelity sound of the selected source. When the Pure Direct mode is activated, this unit plays back the selected source with the least circuitry.

 

[dekaliber]

Yamaha 1800 manual

But that is still using the pre-amp and amp section of the receiver -- I was wondering if there is a way to hook up the system so that it uses ONLY the integrated for playing music?

 

[Seth=L]

Those PSBs need power, I'd get a power amp to add to a receiver. NAD, Outlaw, and Emotiva all offer pretty good two and multichannel amps that can handle those speakers.

 

[gus6464]

What you want is an integrated amp with HT bypass which the NAD cannot do. Cheapest one I have seen is the Denon PMA2000IVR like ACDT has.

 

[dekaliber]

How much of a difference would it make if, instead of getting an integrated amp, I got a dedicated power amp like the NAD C272 (essentially the same amplifier section as the C372) and connected it to the front L/R pre-out on the receiver? Would there be a significant quality improvement in going with a separate pre-amp? I imagine the pre-amp section of a good receiver is going to be fairly on-par with any pre-amp within my budget.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How much of a difference would it make if, instead of getting an integrated amp, I got a dedicated power amp like the NAD C272 (essentially the same amplifier section as the C372) and connected it to the front L/R pre-out on the receiver? Would there be a significant quality improvement in going with a separate pre-amp? I imagine the pre-amp section of a good receiver is going to be fairly on-par with any pre-amp within my budget.

If you already have a receiver (like the Onkyo 805), it makes better sense to get a dedicated power amp, instead of an integrated amp. Then use the Onkyo 805 as the pre-pro and the let the external amp do the hard work of driving your speakers. I think the preamp section of the Onkyo 805 is very nice indeed.

 

[dekaliber]

Still shopping for a receiver as well. The Yamaha RX-V1800 is probably highest on my list.

I noticed that the C372 has power rated at 340wpc (max dynamic 410 wpc) at 4 ohms, which exceeds the recommended power input of the PSB speakers (20-300 watts). Are there any negative impact from this that I should be aware of? I know that it's much better to have more than less, but what if you have too much?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Still shopping for a receiver as well. The Yamaha RX-V1800 is probably highest on my list.

I noticed that the C372 has power rated at 340wpc (max dynamic 410 wpc) at 4 ohms, which exceeds the recommended power input of the PSB speakers (20-300 watts). Are there any negative impact from this that I should be aware of? I know that it's much better to have more than less, but what if you have too much?

There is no such thing as too much power!!!

If I could, I would get a 2,000 watts per channel amp!

Wouldn't do me any good since the electricl circuit in the room limits the power output, but I would still want it.

 

[audioman00]

How much of a difference would it make if, instead of getting an integrated amp, I got a dedicated power amp like the NAD C272 (essentially the same amplifier section as the C372) and connected it to the front L/R pre-out on the receiver? Would there be a significant quality improvement in going with a separate pre-amp? I imagine the pre-amp section of a good receiver is going to be fairly on-par with any pre-amp within my budget.

thats a bad assumption... Remember what the units are designed for... I was recently reminded about that little detail. The PRE-AMP is the way go, but I'm sure it costs more... the music is going to sound sweeter with a higher end preamp, the receivers are built like a all in one box situation, you know there's gonna be some compromises, obviously.

 

[dekaliber]

I wouldn't mind getting a dedicated pre-amp, but I'm just confused as all hell about how the connections would work in association with a HT receiver...

How will the HT receiver and separate pre-amp connect to the power amplifier (say, in this example, a NAD 272)??

 

[audioman00]

On second thought, wouldn't the RX-V1800 do everything you need and still maintain high quality sound? In my opinion if you watch more movies than you listen to music, go for the yammi... those receivers are awsome, the 1600 I used for awhile was way nice... great features and actually great sound quality.

 

[dekaliber]

I would definitely be listening to music much, much more than watching movies. As it is right now, music is probably 80% of the use of my current setup, and after hearing how good those PSBs sound, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't more in the future.

I've heard great things about the RX-V1800 also. I'm curious how the preamp section in that would compare to something like the NAD C162. A discernable difference (worth $500), you think?

 

[audioman00]

Worth $500 NO! but a difference, YES. The components in the NAD or another high end company, are usually of higher quality and different topologies than that of a consumer receiver, ie. slit-foil capacitors, etc. But, the yamaha's are known for using higher end nichicon caps, and high quality discrete power transistors, so they kinda mimick the higher end gear in a way, but if you have a ford, it's still not a Jaguar... The RX-V series of receivers are known as well to be the better of the 2ch music performers in the receiver market, the HTR series is for more movies and best buy stores. I have had about 5 RX-V series yamaha's and loved the stereo reproductionof all of them, especially the older units, but the separate pre-amp / power amp is the way to go for music only. Receivers are focused on home theater so much, they do cut some corners in the power amp section to not be as robust and lack the 'headroom' of a good 2ch separates system. The 1800 is a way good choice for the money, and may be the sound you're looking for, but if you are 80% music and 20% movies.... go have a listen to some gear in your price range... it may be the better choice if you have a picky set of ears.

 

[dekaliber]

Thanks for your input audioman. From what I've learned it seems reasonable that I'd start with the 1800 and output the front LR via pre out to a C272 or comparable entry level power amp. Down the road maybe I will upgrade my source (Slim Devices Transporter tops the list currently) and get a dedicated preamp...