Urban political failure

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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Well even if as some maintain Republicans started it they are definitely not the driving force behind education now

Maybe another way to look at it is no matter which party started it neither party has been able to fix it.

Maybe instead of each side saying they're better then the other we should look at what each party has done to exacerbate the problem.

Then figure out where to go from there. That may take awhile since both sides have become so polarized right now but it will eventually have to happen if we want to see any real change
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Sounds like we need to move people out of cities and into rural areas then. Too much population density.
Ehhhh I don't think rural areas are as rosy always as painted here. When I moved from Larned Kansas where I worked at the Larned Juvenile Correctional Facility a large number of our kids coming in were from rural areas.

We had a huge issue with meth production and abuse back then and it was very popular to produce it outside the city in rural areas to avoid detection.

The combination of bored kids in small towns and meth wasn't very pretty at all
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ehhhh I don't think rural areas are as rosy always as painted here. When I moved from Larned Kansas where I worked at the Larned Juvenile Correctional Facility a large number of our kids coming in were from rural areas.

We had a huge issue with meth production and abuse back then and it was very popular to produce it outside the city in rural areas to avoid detection.

The combination of bored kids in small towns and meth wasn't very pretty at all
Nobody got the sarcasm. :/
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
I personally think the biggest thing is who your parents are. If they value education, the child will too. It's all in upbringing and doing the best with what school is available to you. Teachers can't force a student to learn. My times spent were pretty much sleeping in my own saliva on the desk. I suppose sitting in a building for six hours a day is pretty boring and what enjoyment achieved is from friends. However, I'm not sure there's any other environment than the system we have. I can't see how home schooling is going to work for most, so you do the best you can with what we have. That may sound a cop out, but you have to provide specifically what it is that's going to get better results. I'd say making learning fun is huge. How to? I dunno. I think it requires personality, which not all teachers have.
 
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RedCharles

Full Audioholic
OK so what cheaper methods are being used to get better test results, higher IQ's, getting students to sleep less in class and take interest etc?
I'm not arguing that we should be spending less. I'm arguing that the funds we spend are misused. I'm arguing that we need take a different approach to education. I'm arguing that we need to be honest with ourselves about how the decline of family in America has impacted education.

Peter Drucker wrote in the "Effective Executive" that there's a difference between effectivity and efficiency. Which is to say, I believe that education has been doing the wrong things efficiently for decades. And that we need to move to doing more effective things.

But first, the Left has to admit that it has been trying hard, working hard at the wrong things. I see this in business. People don't want to admit they're wrong. It's ego. And it's tough to let ego go, and say, I was wrong.
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Full Audioholic
I'm not arguing that we should be spending less. I'm arguing that the funds we spend are misused. I'm arguing that we need take a different approach to education. I'm arguing that we need to be honest with ourselves about how the decline of family in America has impacted education.

Peter Drucker wrote in the "Effective Executive" that there's a difference between effectivity and efficiency. Which is to say, I believe that education has been doing the wrong things efficiently for decades. And that we need to move to doing more effective things.

But first, the Left has to admit that it has been trying hard, working hard at the wrong things. I see this in business. People don't want to admit they're wrong. It's ego. And it's tough to let ego go, and say, I was wrong.
Like everything, you get what you pay for with education. Want better instructors? Raise wages.
 
R

RedCharles

Full Audioholic
The combination of bored kids in small towns and meth wasn't very pretty at all
And this is why I say that Donald Trump's message resonated with Ohio river valley voters. I could list off a number of people I've lost. Only Ryan had an article written about him.


Ryan was a friend of mine in Germany. And when I saw that Youngstown Ohio, the home of James Traficant, voted for Trump, I knew Trump was going to win. There are real problems in the American working class that the Democrat Party has failed to address.

As I've said here before, rural and urban concerns are different, and it represents part of the divide, the misunderstanding that exists between urban and rural persons in America.
 
R

RedCharles

Full Audioholic
Like everything, you get what you pay for with education. Want better instructors? Raise wages.
I'm not necessarily interested in better instructors. I know that our teachers are good enough, but they're overstretched. What we need is to move to 21 students per classroom. No more than 21 students in a non-physical education classroom. It needs to be hard line.

And then once that's accomplished, move to 15 students per classroom.

And we need to change the starting times of class to reflect their biology, and not the industrialized world. And to be specific, high school needs to start at 8:30 AM. Not 7:30. Not 7:40. Not 8:00. But 8:30 AM. And let the chips fall where they may, because either the students are the center or they're not. Period.

And that's just for starters.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Field Marshall
Sorry, but from where I sit, funding for the largest public school system in this part of the state is hardly lacking in funds,. What they lack is a decent system for spending the money on education- 65% of the Milwaukee Public School System budget goes to wages and pensions, the latter doing absolutely nothing to educate the 76-78K students. They piss away money on maintenance for unused buildings and until recently, they couldn't sell them because of the bylaws. This means that 35% of the budget goes toward the education efforts which, because of the culture of the system, has high turnover rates of teachers and staff, bad attitudes and poor outcomes. The MPS budget for the 2021-2022 school year is just over $1.3Billion again, for 76-78K students.

The problems here are in the management of the system and implementation of the funds.
So the money is going in other's pockets and not being used for the students. Seems like a money grab by the powers be. Education isn't free in this country never was. Businesses pay the taxes it called a school board tax. Which in turn are passed on to their customers. You and everyone else's money is going to some contractor, maintenance services,. Man back in the 60's 70's there wasn't any student loans, or like what they have now. Tax payers are footing a trillion dollar plus bill that'll never be paid back. Student loans my a$$ why should our tax money be used to pay for someone's higher education that will never be paid back. The colleges, tech schools are the ones laughing all the way to the bank on our dime. What a racket.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
I'm not arguing that we should be spending less. I'm arguing that the funds we spend are misused. I'm arguing that we need take a different approach to education. I'm arguing that we need to be honest with ourselves about how the decline of family in America has impacted education.

Peter Drucker wrote in the "Effective Executive" that there's a difference between effectivity and efficiency. Which is to say, I believe that education has been doing the wrong things efficiently for decades. And that we need to move to doing more effective things.

But first, the Left has to admit that it has been trying hard, working hard at the wrong things. I see this in business. People don't want to admit they're wrong. It's ego. And it's tough to let ego go, and say, I was wrong.
You need to say specifically what things they're doing wrong.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
So the money is going in other's pockets and not being used for the students. Seems like a money grab by the powers be. Education isn't free in this country never was. Businesses pay the taxes it called a school board tax. Which in turn are passed on to their customers. You and everyone else's money is going to some contractor, maintenance services,. Man back in the 60's 70's there wasn't any student loans, or like what they have now. Tax payers are footing a trillion dollar plus bill that'll never be paid back. Student loans my a$$ why should our tax money be used to pay for someone's higher education that will never be paid back. The colleges, tech schools are the ones laughing all the way to the bank on our dime. What a racket.
Property tax bills have a big chunk going to the school districts and MPS is the most expensive district in the state. While my tax bill isn't as bad as it would be if I lived in MKE proper, it's a lot higher than if I lived four miles to the North, in a different county.

I have less of a problem with the local tech schools because they train people in most trades and we badly need them because of the economic crashes that caused so many to leave those jobs, companies closing and people not using them. The shortage of skilled people who are willing to do a decent job is terrible.

Here's an example of someone working in a job that needs to go somewhere else, where he can't do any damage-

I oversaw the installation of Spectrum cable/phone/internet at the home of one of my customers on Tuesday. The guy was friendly enough, but while I was inside of the house, he was outside, so I didn't see how he did what he should have, but didn't. He left before I did and when I looked at his "work", I saw that he didn't:

- strap the cable to the conduit for the meter box,
- didn't install a ground block for the cable service (that's an NEC Article 820 code violation)
- left the short cable used for testing the signal in place and connected another piece to reach the house
- didn't use a weatherproof kit for the coupling on the cable
- didn't make sure the cable ends were tight on the coupler

This resulted in a service repair call and I had to meet with that installer yesterday (need to have an adult on site for them to do the work) and this time, it was done right (I had worked with this installer on the house next door and he's definitely one of Spectrum's good people.

That was bad enough, but I got a text from the next door neighbor of this house yesterday, to tell me that their cable TV, internet and phones weren't working and I had noticed that their surveillance cameras weren't viewable on my phone or computer and thought that maybe, the UPS had shut off, but since I had told them how to turn it on, I expected it to come back.

In the text message, the homeowner told me that she had seen the second installer while he was still parked in front of their home and asked him to take a quick look. Turns out, the cable to their house had been cut near the splitter/amplifier on the pole. The only person who could have done that is the first installer but I'll have to wait until the service has been restored in order to prove that by watching the video from their DVR. Their service stopped on Tuesday afternoon.

What a freaking coincidence. This also means I'll probably need to make some setup changes to the DVR for the neighbor, since it uses a DDNS service to allow remote viewing and I'll have to charge them for my time and they'll have to dicker with Spectrum in order to be reimbursed.
 
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pewternhrata

Audioholic Chief
So the money is going in other's pockets and not being used for the students. Seems like a money grab by the powers be. Education isn't free in this country never was. Businesses pay the taxes it called a school board tax. Which in turn are passed on to their customers. You and everyone else's money is going to some contractor, maintenance services,. Man back in the 60's 70's there wasn't any student loans, or like what they have now. Tax payers are footing a trillion dollar plus bill that'll never be paid back. Student loans my a$$ why should our tax money be used to pay for someone's higher education that will never be paid back. The colleges, tech schools are the ones laughing all the way to the bank on our dime. What a racket.
College keeps being pushed big time, rack up 100k in student loans its worth it, keep away from trades and community College it won't get ya anywhere, it's all nonsense. I did like how Clinton appeared to have a huge push for community college/trades and better funding for it. I don't understand the push (well, within reason) on equality and everyone should be able to afford ivy league schools and such. Life's not fair, and most importantly own up to the responsibility of paying back loans, 'you' went to college, 'you're' supposed to be smarter than me.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
College keeps being pushed big time, rack up 100k in student loans its worth it, keep away from trades and community College it won't get ya anywhere, it's all nonsense. I did like how Clinton appeared to have a huge push for community college/trades and better funding for it. I don't understand the push (well, within reason) on equality and everyone should be able to afford ivy league schools and such. Life's not fair, and most importantly own up to the responsibility of paying back loans, 'you' went to college, 'you're' supposed to be smarter than me.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but with trades there's a pay ceiling. People with college degrees like masters or doctorates tend to make more.
 
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pewternhrata

Audioholic Chief
I agree with a lot of what you say, but with trades there's a pay ceiling. People with college degrees like masters or doctorates tend to make more.
Agree 100%, really depends on what an individual wants to achieve. Trades, say electrician, hvac, Painter, all have different pay scales but its also dependent on what that industry is paying. I know a few quite a few ppl in the unions and they easily break 80k in their early 30s, both annuities and pensions will come after retirement. Doesn't seem like a bad choice, Also without the debt of loans. True making millions won't happen, but that in itself isn't as common as some make it seem. I'm for either and i only push towards community or trades bc imo it's typically a faster track to financial stability and job stability.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree with a lot of what you say, but with trades there's a pay ceiling. People with college degrees like masters or doctorates tend to make more.
But people in the trades often start their own companies and many go to college for additional study, like business, accounting, management and/or connect with someone through a business deal or in soma cases, they may marry someone whose education is in one of more of these areas. Many builders make a buttload of money and other business owners in the trades make great money. Look at the starting pay for some jobs- welders are in huge demand and the local trade school shows that most of their welding program students are starting at more than $50K. Specialty welders make a lot more.

This all assumes people will want to work hard and put in the time/effort to get where they want to be.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
But people in the trades often start their own companies and many go to college for additional study, like business, accounting, management and/or connect with someone through a business deal or in soma cases, they may marry someone whose education is in one of more of these areas. Many builders make a buttload of money and other business owners in the trades make great money. Look at the starting pay for some jobs- welders are in huge demand and the local trade school shows that most of their welding program students are starting at more than $50K. Specialty welders make a lot more.

This all assumes people will want to work hard and put in the time/effort to get where they want to be.
Of course there are exceptions like upper management and ownership, but it doesn't change the average pay range for each degree.
Edit: I think it's getting a little stupid. Well I strongly recommend a career in a trade because I'm a Republican. I recommend a degree in the liberal arts because I'm a liberal.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Of course there are exceptions like upper management and ownership, but it doesn't change the average pay range for each degree.
Edit: I think it's getting a little stupid. Well I strongly recommend a career in a trade because I'm a Republican. I recommend a degree in the liberal arts because I'm a liberal.
My dad worked for Harley Davidson until '82 and they had guys who would take every bit of overtime available. Even then, some were cracking the $100K range as production machinists. Using an inflation calculator, $100K was like making more than $300K, now.

Dem or Republican, people need to look at the job market when they choose a field of study and career and they need to be far more flexible if their dream job doesn't materialize immediately.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
Agree 100%, really depends on what an individual wants to achieve. Trades, say electrician, hvac, Painter, all have different pay scales but its also dependent on what that industry is paying. I know a few quite a few ppl in the unions and they easily break 80k in their early 30s, both annuities and pensions will come after retirement. Doesn't seem like a bad choice, Also without the debt of loans. True making millions won't happen, but that in itself isn't as common as some make it seem. I'm for either and i only push towards community or trades bc imo it's typically a faster track to financial stability and job stability.
For sure there's more waste in universities. All I'm saying is if you wanna be a doctor or engineer or anything along those lines you can't go trade.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
My bad. Yep community college first two years. Unless your parents are wealthy/getting a free ride.
 
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