UPS power questions, need help

[sclark]

Hello all,
Long time lurker, first post here. I have a UPS/APC question for you guys. Currently I have a Pure PF60 hooked up to my home theater. Its pretty nice and does the job. Now that I have been using it for a while I have noticed that the power drops down or sags if you will, quite often. We also have quite a few power outages in the area I live in.

My question is about UPS / APC units. If I understand correctly I could use one and my system would effectively run off the batteries in the unit instead of the outlet power. First, is this correct. If so, how do you go about figuring out how large of a unit you would need? Is it the wattage of all the units connected or the amps? I looked through most of my equipment manuals and only seem to find wattage listed. Most of my units used for everyday viewing of just TV comes in just under 1000 watts. If I watch a dvd or play xbox, of course the numbers would go up a little.

So basically looking for advice on what I should look for. I have an extra APC XS 1000 which is 1000VA and 600W, which is I guess not enough.

 

[MDS]

First you need to decide on how much runtime you need when the power goes out and the UPS switches to battery power. If you only want the protection of battery backup so you have time to shut everything off in an orderly fashion, you don't need much runtime. If you want to be able to continue viewing or playing games for a long time while the power is out you need a much higher runtime.

The stated runtime on a UPS is for half-load. So if it is rated to 1000VA/600 watts with a stated runtime of say 10 minutes, the battery will only last the full ten minutes if the load is 500VA/300 watts. With a lower load the runtime will be longer and with a higher load the runtime will be shorter.

To choose the right size UPS you basically add up the average power draw of the components that will be connected and choose a UPS with a VA rating that is higher (double if you need the full stated runtime for that load). Keep in mind the number of devices that will be on and operating at the same time.

 

[Adam]

sclark, welcome!

My understanding is that some UPS systems will run off the battery all of the time, while most don't. Most will only use the battery if the primary power (i.e. outlet power) is removed. Sorry to say that I don't have any product examples for you, but I'm guessing that a quick internet search would pull some up.

 

[sclark]

Thanks for the replies, appreciate it. I guess my main concern is that I frequently have power sags and underpower. Not really concerned with having any real runtime with the UPS system at all, other than to be able to shut down my components. I was hoping to just correct the undervolt problem as it occurs with the UPS. Should I be looking for a sinewave unit or is that over-rated / unneccesary?


I also have an SXRD and I have heard suddon power outages can cause the bulb to wear faster as you lose the fan during cutouts. A UPS would at least allow the fan to continue to run after I power everything off.

 

[MDS]

Many UPS do have automatic voltage regulation but it is within a range and it only kicks in when the voltage falls above or below the set range.

The UPS for my computers is currently set to a range of 88 volts to 138 volts and the monitoring utility indicates that the current voltage is 127. So the UPS will not intervene unless the voltage drops below 88 or rises above 138. The tightest range I could set is 97 - 127. Unless you frequently have wild power variations, the AVR will not kick in. If you have frequent brown-outs or absolute power loss the UPS will switch to battery power immediately and that's what you really need to have time to shutdown the equipment or allow the TV fan to run before shutting off the TV.

A pure sine wave ('online') UPS is not necessary for the purposes of keeping things running for a short time during a power outage. If you wanted to watch TV for an hour during a power outage AND you are super picky about having good quality images during that time, then you could buy an online UPS - at a huge increase in cost.

 

[sclark]

MDS,
Thanks for the response. So I see from your statements that my hopes of having the UPS maintain a constant 120v out is not going to work. Oh well, worth a shot I guess. I really do not have wild fluctuation as you stated it was just worriesome seeing the power dip quite a bit. I guess I will try out the extra UPS I have here as it will probably be enough to allow me to power the system down and allow the TV fan to operate until the power comes back on.

 

[Johnd]

MDS,
Thanks for the response. So I see from your statements that my hopes of having the UPS maintain a constant 120v out is not going to work. Oh well, worth a shot I guess. I really do not have wild fluctuation as you stated it was just worriesome seeing the power dip quite a bit. I guess I will try out the extra UPS I have here as it will probably be enough to allow me to power the system down and allow the TV fan to operate until the power comes back on.

As MDS wrote, you need a voltage regulator to maintain fluctuating voltage:
http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/Panamax/M7500-PRO-Voltage-Regulator-Home-Theater-Surge-Protector_2062.php
They are expensive, but they do the job.

If your "power drops down or sags if you will, quite often", I would first contact your electric company to ascertain a good power supply. Then check the obvious culprits (bad ground, bad breaker, bad connections, and the "stab connection" on the back of outlets are notorious for causing issues). If you are unfamiliar, hire a certified electrician. Cheers.

 

[Ryan8886]

MDS,
Thanks for the response. So I see from your statements that my hopes of having the UPS maintain a constant 120v out is not going to work. Oh well, worth a shot I guess. I really do not have wild fluctuation as you stated it was just worriesome seeing the power dip quite a bit. I guess I will try out the extra UPS I have here as it will probably be enough to allow me to power the system down and allow the TV fan to operate until the power comes back on.

Welcome to the board, sclark!

You don't need to have UPS in order to get voltage regulation. The APC H-10/H-15 models provide surge protection, power filtering (a dubious term if ever there was one! ) and Automatic Voltage Regulation. When I was shopping around for a unit, the AVR combined with the APC name is what pushed me to by the H-10 over the Belkin PF-60 (the Belkin IS cooler looking!). If you shop around, you should be able to find an APC H-10 for right around $200. There are not many units that combine all those features for the price.
As far as UPS goes, it IS a nice feature, but really only a requirement if you have a projector TV that requires the cooling fan to run after shutdown to maintain bulb life. As with all these units, it's a function of how much you want to spend for the options you think are necessary.

 

[Johnd]

Hey Ryan...good morning. Did you have your coffee yet? sclark's been around for 3 years. But you can still welcome him...I'm all for amicability.

The let through voltage rating of the APC H15 is 40 volts, rendering it a rather useless regulator for an expensive amp or receiver (imho). The Panamax regulator limits fluctuation to 2 volts.

 

[sclark]

Thanks for all the advice guys. That Panamax unit is really nice, out of my price range, but still nice. I guess I will go with what I have currently and try the APC I have simply for the TV. I do have a Sony xbr2 sxrd projection set so at least I can keep the fan up and running and provide a bit of protection in that regard.

Also good advice about calling the power company. It's funny we live probably less than 2 miles from the power plant and have more problems than people 50 miles away!

 

[Johnd]

That happens. And again, many voltage fluctuations start right in the home...loose connections, bad ground, bad connection at outlet, etc.

These are all simply checked by a qualified electrician. Cheers.

 

[Ryan8886]

Hey Ryan...good morning. Did you have your coffee yet? sclark's been around for 3 years. But you can still welcome him...I'm all for amicability.

The let through voltage rating of the APC H15 is 40 volts, rendering it a rather useless regulator for an expensive amp or receiver (imho). The Panamax regulator limits fluctuation to 2 volts.

Actually, no, I had not had my "coffee" yet, but I noticed the low post number and thought a welcome might be in order anyway.
As for the Panamax vs. APC, that Panamax is a very nice unit; for 10 times the price of the unit I recommended, it should be. However, not everyone is in the position to blow $2000 on a glorified power strip without re-financing their house first.
As his OP discussed the Belkin PF-60, I figured something in a similar range would be appropriate. However I DID miss the fact that he has a tv with a bulb that needs cooling in the event of a power outage....so something like the APC J-15 (around $400)would be more appropriate.

 

[Johnd]

Actually, no, I had not had my "coffee" yet, but I noticed the low post number and thought a welcome might be in order anyway.

Understood. Also please understand my dry sense of humor...it is humor nonetheless.

As for the Panamax vs. APC, that Panamax is a very nice unit; for 10 times the price of the unit I recommended, it should be. However, not everyone is in the position to blow $2000 on a glorified power strip without re-financing their house first.

Understood. But also understand that one is absolutely blowing their money on a regulator that allows 40 volt fluctuations. It is simply useless with a 40 volt pass through. I thought the op was unaware of this huge allowance, and I brought his attention to it. Also understand that one cannot buy a decent ht voltage regulator for $200, or even $400.

As his OP discussed the Belkin PF-60, I figured something in a similar range would be appropriate. However I DID miss the fact that he has a tv with a bulb that needs cooling in the event of a power outage....so something like the APC J-15 (around $400)would be more appropriate.

Understood. But also understand that whilst those units are very nice protectors, they are essentially useless as a voltage regulator since they allow a 40 volt pass through.

Finally, people need to understand that regular fluctuations like that are not normal in most circumstances...although they do occur with frequency in some regions. In that case, the utility company ought to be first consulted to ascertain proper wiring and connections. Then the home ought to be inspected for bad grounds, loose connections or bad outlets. The final resort (imho) out to be a regulator. Anyhow, I'm sure he's appreciates your suggestions, and hopefully mine. I'm off for some more coffee. Peace.

 

[majorloser]

I know they're not the nicest looking UPS's on the market for audio racks, but I use APC SmartUPS units. They offer a good AVR and a very low let-through voltage. You can sometimes pick up good deals straight from APC's factory outlet. They also offer refurb units. The inventory changes often. You'll have to keep checking back.

http://buy.apc.com/commerce/storefronts/factoryoutlet/default.aspx?storefrontcode=apcfo&countrycode=us