Upgrading from a Yamaha RX-V461 to Sony STR-DN850 amp to improve music - Wasting my time?

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NeilF

Enthusiast
I've owned my Yamaha RX-V461 amp for about 7yrs with it connected to Mordaunt Short Avant Premiere 5.1 speakers, with the fronts upgraded to Mordaunt Short 902i's.

I've always felt:-
a) The music playback has been a bit lacking. A bit lifeless. My old (fairly cheap) stereo I'd say sounds nicer for example.
b) The center vocal audio isn't quite as clear/loud as I'd like, even though I've tried addressing it.

I'm wondering if I upgrade to a Sony STR-DN850 I stand a chance of at least improving the music playback?

Or is this just the way AV amps sound compared to dedicated stereo units (even cheap ones) so I'd be wasting my time/money?

Thanks for any insight/help!

ps: I know some people think bi-wiring/amping is a waste of time with these sort of amps, but the 902i speaks do permit it, and the Sony 850 supports it!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The Sony won't do any better. Try getting the lowest cost AVR that has preouts and add a 2 channel amp for the L/R.
 
Last edited:
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NeilF

Enthusiast
The Sony won't do any better. Try getting the lowest cost AVR and add a 2 channel amp for the L/R.
really? Because the goal is to keep units/wiring simple :(

That said, if I could just buy a 2 channel amp, and then basically just by wiring it in appropriately get 2.1 sounds out of the existing speakers, that would be OK?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
really? Because the goal is to keep units/wiring simple :(

That said, if I could just buy a 2 channel amp, and then basically just by wiring it in appropriately get 2.1 sounds out of the existing speakers, that would be OK?


You have a 5.1 system so you need an AVR that has multichannel preouts.

A Yamaha Rx-A 8xx or Demon AVR-X3X00 would be good.
 
N

NeilF

Enthusiast
You have a 5.1 system so you need an AVR that has multichannel preouts.

A Yamaha Rx-A 8xx or Demon AVR-X3X00 would be good.
..and then you'd need a dedicated stereo amp too to do the front channels (for music)?

Alternatively just get a dedicated stereo amp, and a box to switch (front) speakers?

I mainly play music from my Squeezebox 3 which I believe has quite a good DAC in it? So the amp need only be simple?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
..and then you'd need a dedicated stereo amp too to do the front channels (for music)?

Alternatively just get a dedicated stereo amp, and a box to switch (front) speakers?

I mainly play music from my Squeezebox 3 which I believe has quite a good DAC in it? So the amp need only be simple?
Your avr does not have preouts so it is not easy to "just" add a stereo amp.

The Denon x3100 may be powerful enough for you without the help of an amp.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
I've owned my Yamaha RX-V461 amp for about 7yrs with it connected to Mordaunt Short Avant Premiere 5.1 speakers, with the fronts upgraded to Mordaunt Short 902i's.

I've always felt:-
a) The music playback has been a bit lacking. A bit lifeless. My old (fairly cheap) stereo I'd say sounds nicer for example.
b) The center vocal audio isn't quite as clear/loud as I'd like, even though I've tried addressing it.

I'm wondering if I upgrade to a Sony STR-DN850 I stand a chance of at least improving the music playback?

Or is this just the way AV amps sound compared to dedicated stereo units (even cheap ones) so I'd be wasting my time/money?

Thanks for any insight/help!

ps: I know some people think bi-wiring/amping is a waste of time with these sort of amps, but the 902i speaks do permit it, and the Sony 850 supports it!
Before you go spending $, have you tried to optimize your placement? The toe-in?

Where is you center speaker located? Below the TV?

Have you run the YPAO software? Have you tried direct mode, and be sure any funky audio processing is switched OFF!

You say your old stereo sounds better? Is that on the exact same set of speakers and volume matched?
 
N

NeilF

Enthusiast
Before you go spending $, have you tried to optimize your placement? The toe-in?
Yes... The front stereo speakers used to be 302is (smaller) and were upgraded to 902is. No real improvement TBH (especially in the music department).

Where is you center speaker located? Below the TV?
Yes...

Have you run the YPAO software? Have you tried direct mode, and be sure any funky audio processing is switched OFF!
Yes... Yes... and yes ;)

The amp even has a "direct" option.

You say your old stereo sounds better? Is that on the exact same set of speakers and volume matched?
Different speakers... I'm talking about a 25yr old Sony mini-hifi system, and a 15yr old small little DVD player come hifi system.
 
N

NeilF

Enthusiast
Your avr does not have preouts so it is not easy to "just" add a stereo amp.

The Denon x3100 may be powerful enough for you without the help of an amp.
Excuse a most likely stupid question please...

Why recommend another AV amp? ie: The Denon x3100? Is that one suppose to be better for music?


As regards just adding a stereo amp, I though one solution might be to get a dedicated stereo amp, plug my Squeeezebox 3 (my music source) into it, and then share the front stereo speaker with teh AV amp via a speaker switch box?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Excuse a most likely stupid question please...

Why recommend another AV amp? ie: The Denon x3100? Is that one suppose to be better for music?


As regards just adding a stereo amp, I though one solution might be to get a dedicated stereo amp, plug my Squeeezebox 3 (my music source) into it, and then share the front stereo speaker with teh AV amp via a speaker switch box?
Because it has the pre-outs you need if you want to add external amp(s), but it is also quite a bit more powerful than your little Yamaha so you may find that it has enough power for you. It also has Audyssey XT that comes with the Dynamic EQ feature. DEQ is very helpful for people who listen at lower to comfortable levels.
 
N

NeilF

Enthusiast
Because it has the pre-outs you need if you want to add external amp(s), but it is also quite a bit more powerful than your little Yamaha so you may find that it has enough power for you. It also has Audyssey XT that comes with the Dynamic EQ feature. DEQ is very helpful for people who listen at lower to comfortable levels.

OK, but I think my confusion is then coming from why is the Denon x3100 a viable option when the Sony STR-DN850 I mentioned not? Is it simply because of the pre-outs (which the Denon x3100 has) with a view of then adding another additional dedicated amp just to improve the music quality?

Or are you suggesting the Denon x3100 itself would provie the improvement in music playback quality I'm after?

Apologies for any excessive noobness!
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Your center is below the TV, and you have problems hearing dialogue........is the speaker pointed up at your ears or pointed straight ahead? Do you have a coffee table between TV and listening position?
 
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NeilF

Enthusiast
Your center is below the TV, and you have problems hearing dialogue........is the speaker pointed up at your ears or pointed straight ahead? Do you have a coffee table between TV and listening position?
It's a minor issue really, at least in comparison to what I'd describe as the music performance...

The center speaker is immediately under the TV on a dedicated shelf (straight ahead). I think in the past I even raised it up and placed it on the top of the cabinet with little difference.

But it's of small concern - as I said - compared to "music".
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
OK, but I think my confusion is then coming from why is the Denon x3100 a viable option when the Sony STR-DN850 I mentioned not? Is it simply because of the pre-outs (which the Denon x3100 has) with a view of then adding another additional dedicated amp just to improve the music quality?

Or are you suggesting the Denon x3100 itself would provie the improvement in music playback quality I'm after?

Apologies for any excessive noobness!
I do believe the Denon will sound better than the much less powerful Sony even without the help of an external amp.
 
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