Upgraded advice needed from the more experienced.

[Entity]

First off, let me start by saying hello~ I've lurked here for a couple of years now since researching my V663, mostly just gathering information (Thanks!) but haven't had much of a reason to post until now, but I'm looking for some advice. (more of a "what would you do" scenario)

I've been getting an upgrade itch and I'm really not sure which direction to go. Currently I have:

46inch Samsung LCD
RX-V663
EMP Impression series with the E5ti towers.
PS3 source for blu ray.

My room is 19x11x9 (very rectangular) with a 5 foot wide opening leading into another 19x11x9 space. The opposite wall to the opening is covered by 2 windows and double french doors towards an enclosed porch, also on the same wall is the exterior doorway, basically a big wall of leaded glass. The end wall farthest from the opening is entirely covered with a brick fireplace with built in leaded glass bookshelves on each side(that rattle like crazy) I have the television and speakers set up in front of the fireplace (it's gas and unused). I would draw a picture, but apparently my architectural paint skills aren't up to par lol. Also floor is all carpet(very short).

I used to have this set up in a much smaller space (half this size and only 1 door/window) and it sounded great. After moving to my current home, the living space is practically an audio black hole. The bass is awful in nearly every location and the sound from the towers feels abnormally quiet in movies until roughly -20 to -18 on the Yamaha which is way beyond anything I'd gone to in the old room. Overall everything just sounds awful, no thickness, highs feel....annoying without actually feeling loud, mids are only so so. Basically it's depressing to hear them sound so bad after having them in a room that sounded so great.

My poor Impression sub used to never get pushed past 1/4 gain, and after doing the bass crawl only a small area on the wall opposite of the tv/fireplace (behind the couch) sounded even remotely right, and to even hear the bass I have to turn it up to at least 3/4 gain and I feel like I'm going to break it. Now I figure that part of the bass problem is just volume of air from the large opening to the adjoining room. I ordered a cheap Dayton 12 sub (hasn't arrived) just to play with and see if a 2nd larger sub would help out before taking the plunge into a an HSU or something similar.

After ordering the sub, naturally now I want to upgrade everything else but my self control and lack of an idea of which way would be better to proceed has me unsure of what to do. Now I've run the room correction a dozen times and it hasn't helped much, so I'm looking for alternatives. I've thought about upgrading towers to the e55's(I'm a sucker for scratch and dent) and use the E5's as surrounds. Also considered stepping up to an external amp like the now on sale UPA-7 for more power to fill the space? Though I'm not sure that would help much as the power increase is marginal.

Anyway, sorry for the long post! I would appreciate any ideas anyone has for improving my situation. Thanks!

 

[JJMP50]

As you can see in my signature, I'm using a RX-V659 with a UPA-5. The 659 is a couple generations behind your 663 but actually has a better amp section per reviews I've read (less features though) and I experienced a big jump in performance when I got the UPA-5. That being said, the #1 improvement you can do is always upgrade speakers.

 

[bread29]

I am no expert by any means, but I was in a similar situation and will do my best to help out. I have a 20x22x9 room that has a recessed bar (with glass shelves) and opens into the kitchen. I was powering Klipsch Icon 7.2 setup with a Yamaha v863. I was having issues with the sound being too harsh and bass not being 'loud' enough.
I began to reposition my towers (closer to seating position and away from wall) and subwoofer (corner loaded and other sub closer to seating position). I also treated the room....throw rugs, heavy curtains, felt under the glass to prevent rattling, bass traps, etc. The room treatment helped significantly! I also upgraded to the UPA-5 and own two HSU subs. Best of luck.

 

[Swerd]

Before you spend any money on amps or speakers, there are some things you can try with the gear you now have.

• Did you wire your speakers with the same polarity for each speaker? You'd be surprised how many people get that wrong, especially when they have just moved into a new place. If one of your two front speakers is wired with opposite polarity compared to the other, it will "suck the life out" of their sound, especially the bass.
  
  
• What is the distance from your front speakers/TV to couch? The distance between the front speakers and the listener is at least as important as the overall room size. Try moving the couch.
  
  
• What is the distance between your front speakers/TV to fireplace/bookshelf wall? It is possible that reflections from the brick fireplace wall and bookshelf glass doors are contributing to the poor sound. The greater the distance between the speakers and the wall behind them, the less you hear the reflected sound compared to sound originating from the speakers themselves. Try an experiment - move the front speakers about 3 or 4 feet farther away from that wall. Does that improve the sound? You probably can't keep the speakers that far out into the room, but that will give you an idea if this helps. If it does, try moving the speakers back towards the wall in small 4-6" increments and listen after each move. As you get closer to the wall, you should hear the problem returning. Move the speakers as close as you can without getting so close to the wall that the poor sound returns.
  
  
• On your Yamaha receiver, can you perform a manual set up instead of the YPAO automatic set up? Often, these automatic set-up systems don't get it right. It depends on the room. You'll need an inexpensive hand-held sound pressure level (SPL) meter. Radio Shack sells them. If you haven't done that before, it's simple. Check your reciever's manual and follow the set-up directions. First, you measure the distance between a central seating spot (like the center of your sofa) and each of your speakers. Enter that distance into the receiver. Then, at the same central seat, use the receiver's test pink noise tones and the SPL meter to adjust the volume of each speaker, one at a time, until each speaker is equally loud. Compare those manual settings with the ones you get with YPAO. Which one sounds better?

After you satisfy yourself that your wire polarity is correct, and that moving furniture or speakers doesn't help, then you may need new speakers or bigger amps. Personally, I'd concentrate on speakers first.

I'm not sure how powerful your Yamaha receiver is - I'm guessing about 90-100 watts/channel when 2 channels are active. To get an audible improvement by increasing the power, look for external amps that at least triple what you now have. Ideally, you would try to increase that by 10-fold, but that may not be realistic. So, if you rule out all the various low-cost options above and decide that more power is needed, you should look for a 2-channel amp of at least 200 wpc at 8 ohms amp to drive the front speakers.

 

[Entity]

Thanks for the responses so far. Room treatment is definitely something I'm looking into. Is there an economical way to close off the opening to the other room so that so much of the sound isn't going through? I've thought about maybe putting heavy drapes up to block out sunlight from that room, but I was also hoping it could serve a dual purpose in keeping some sound in.

Swerd, my couch is about 9.5 feet from the speakers which is what YPAO showed during all the test...it managed all the distances right except for the sub...which it feels is between 30-36 feet away They are also about 2 feet out from the edge of the fireplace and rattling bookshelves.

Wire polarity is definitely correct, I triple checked that when I moved. However I do not have an SPL meter as it's one of the several things I forgot to grab when I moved across the country. I will pick one up and try some manual adjustments. I know there are individual adjustments for frequencies but I haven't dug into them very deeply.

Due to the way the room is built, there is really only 2 ways to set things up, the way I have it and putting everything on the opposite end by the opening. I may try that also just to see if the blank wall on that end will help the situation.

Other than the obvious problem of all the silly leaded glass (pretty but not functional) and the fireplace, could part of the differences I'm hearing be room construction? The last place I had this set up, was a ranch style home with concrete slab floor(carpet) and all insulated drywall. This house has carpet/wood then it goes down to basement, and being that it's an older house it's not actually drywalled...it's that weird board with mortar looking filling in between or however they did it back then

 

[sholling]

I would start with Swerd's suggestions - as always spot on. Once you've gone though those steps I'd look at the sub. Too little sub for a room will suck the life out of a system. Speaker amplification depends on speaker sensitivity and seating distance, while subwoofers deal with total room volume. With you having to crank up the sub's volume it seems the more likely culprit than too little receiver power. I'd contact Hsu for some product and placement suggestions.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks for the responses so far. Room treatment is definitely something I'm looking into. Is there an economical way to close off the opening to the other room so that so much of the sound isn't going through? I've thought about maybe putting heavy drapes up to block out sunlight from that room, but I was also hoping it could serve a dual purpose in keeping some sound in.

Hm, ok the bass. Play more with sub location, its phase, and especially YOUR location (get off the back wall for instance). To adjust phase, ballpark, by ear, have a friend play with the knob at the sub while playing bass heavy music. The better setting will sound fuller. You can swap positions to confirm.

Swerd, my couch is about 9.5 feet from the speakers which is what YPAO showed during all the test...it managed all the distances right except for the sub...which it feels is between 30-36 feet away They are also about 2 feet out from the edge of the fireplace and rattling bookshelves.

Subwoofers have DSP/EQ/filters which will make for electrical distance. 1ms delay is about equivalent to 1ft, so your sub has about 30' of electrical distance, so to speak.

Other than the obvious problem of all the silly leaded glass (pretty but not functional) and the fireplace, could part of the differences I'm hearing be room construction? The last place I had this set up, was a ranch style home with concrete slab floor(carpet) and all insulated drywall. This house has carpet/wood then it goes down to basement, and being that it's an older house it's not actually drywalled...it's that weird board with mortar looking filling in between or however they did it back then

Oh, the room is a huge issue. While it's tougher to diagnose the bass, for HF, you can stand in the room, and shout/sing/clap/yell/bang-pots-n-pans, and listen to what kind of resonances and/or slap echo you have to deal with.