Upgrade to PSB's

[walmat]

I'm new here and I'm hoping to get some feedback on this from this expert site:
I currently have an H/K 254 AVR driving a 12" velodyne DPS sub and five Cerwin Vega satellites. My two CV fronts are 6" with 1" tweeters (E706), my center is 2x 5" with a 1" tweeter (E75c) and my two rears are 5" with 1" tweeter (E705). The room is 12' x 21'.
I want to upgrade to two PSB B25's fronts, a PSB C40 center, and two PSB B15 rears.
My question is will this give me a more detailed, fuller sound coverage compred to the vegas?
How do you think the PSB's will perform with the amp (used mainly for HT)?
I have listened to the speakers and I do like them I'm only asking for further opinions or comments on this upgrade before I commit.
Thanks

 

[jostenmeat]

I have no idea how well that receiver performs, but the B25 has been measured to drop to 3.7 ohms at 177 hz.

If your volumes are only ever moderate, you are probably just fine. If you do like to crank it now and then, I'd think about adding some amplification.

If it was me, I'd see if a 3rd B25 could fit as vertical center, and if not, Id see if the C60 could. Just me.

Good luck.

 

[3db]

I have no idea how well that receiver performs, but the B25 has been measured to drop to 3.7 ohms at 177 hz.

If your volumes are only ever moderate, you are probably just fine. If you do like to crank it now and then, I'd think about adding some amplification.

If it was me, I'd see if a 3rd B25 could fit as vertical center, and if not, Id see if the C60 could. Just me.

Good luck.

Hey Josten, it depends on the phase angle at that minimum impedance drop. If its smaller than 20 degrees, I think it would be fine for him to crank it. The 3rd B25 as a center is a good idea. if he can purchase an odd number like that. Usually, they are sold in pairs.

 

[3db]

I'm new here and I'm hoping to get some feedback on this from this expert site:
I currently have an H/K 254 AVR driving a 12" velodyne DPS sub and five Cerwin Vega satellites. My two CV fronts are 6" with 1" tweeters (E706), my center is 2x 5" with a 1" tweeter (E75c) and my two rears are 5" with 1" tweeter (E705). The room is 12' x 21'.
I want to upgrade to two PSB B25's fronts, a PSB C40 center, and two PSB B15 rears.
My question is will this give me a more detailed, fuller sound coverage compred to the vegas?
How do you think the PSB's will perform with the amp (used mainly for HT)?
I have listened to the speakers and I do like them I'm only asking for further opinions or comments on this upgrade before I commit.
Thanks

You will notice more detail from the PSBs than teh CVs. What do you mean by full coverage? From a frequency response or room filling response? Either way, you should have gotten both from your existing setup. Maybe some tweeking is required on the crossover settings on the receiver and sub.

 

[walmat]

You will notice more detail from the PSBs than teh CVs. What do you mean by full coverage? From a frequency response or room filling response? Either way, you should have gotten both from your existing setup. Maybe some tweeking is required on the crossover settings on the receiver and sub.

The frequency response from my existing set up is good. What I'm referring to is a more immersive sound richer in detail to give you more of a theater experience.
Believe I've tweaked my existing set up with spl meter, test cd's etc and I've got it sounding pretty good now I want to yake it to the next level. Do you think the PSB's are a worthy improvement?

 

[no. 5]

What I'm referring to is a more immersive sound richer in detail to give you more of a theater experience.

For what it's worth, the on and off-axis frequency response curves of a speaker have an effect on what you are describing.

Do you think the PSB's are a worthy improvement?

PSB usually makes a good speaker.

 

[deedubb]

I'd take PSB over Cerwin Vega any day of the week. I think where you'll really notice the difference is when listening to music.

Any chance you can audition the PSBs at home? That's really the only way you'll be able to tell whether you prefer them over your current speakers.

 

[jostenmeat]

The frequency response from my existing set up is good. What I'm referring to is a more immersive sound richer in detail to give you more of a theater experience.
Believe I've tweaked my existing set up with spl meter, test cd's etc and I've got it sounding pretty good now I want to yake it to the next level. Do you think the PSB's are a worthy improvement?

IMO, for the theater experience, PSB is an excellent value. I find with the Image series that the midbass definition could definitely be improved, but I am comparing that to my stereo speakers that are waaaaaaay more expensive. And even then, my stereo speakers weren't the best with midbass that I've heard either.

YMMV.

but for theater, these are a great buy, no questions IMO. And when I talk of midbass, Im not sure that you will EVER notice unless you listen to classical music.

 

[walmat]

I just got home from auditioning all the PSB's I'm interested in. I even gave the center C40 a good listen on its own and wow did they ever sound good. Compared to my old bookshelf CV's these had tremendous depth to them with excellent detail and a rich full bodied sound. I'm no audiofile by any means but I am a former guitar player and listening to Stevie Ray through all of these speakers was incredible.
The sales guy recommended I listen to some Kef's as well and these were paper thin sounding in comparison. I'll stick to PSB's.
I have another listening appointment on Wednesday where they'll be hooked up to an H/K 254 amp same as the one I have and if they sound as good as they did today I'm sold.
Thanks for your help guys.

 

[jostenmeat]

pssst..... c60 c60 c60 ......

FWIW, regarding KEF, the coincidental design they use is superior by nature for a horizontal center speaker. Just FYI. Lobing issues will be relegated to lower frequencies . . . further from dialogue passband.

 

[walmat]

pssst..... c60 c60 c60 ......

FWIW, regarding KEF, the coincidental design they use is superior by nature for a horizontal center speaker. Just FYI. Lobing issues will be relegated to lower frequencies . . . further from dialogue passband.

The C60 puts me over budget and as for the rset of your post ....what????
Remember I'm a noob.. me no speaky...

 

[jostenmeat]

The C60 puts me over budget

How much more is it for the c60 for you, at this point in time? $60?

and as for the rset of your post ....what????
Remember I'm a noob.. me no speaky...

The PSB center speakers, as with 99% of "center" speakers made, use what is called the horizontal MTM array.

Because these two mid drivers are playing the EXACT same frequencies, once you become off axis to them, you are now in fact at different distances from them. So, since the frequencies are not aligned exactly together (at a different distance) you will suffer random sets of boosts and cancellations.

A better horiz MTM would have the drivers closer together (so that differing distances are reduced), and have the xover point as lower (to try to get the lobing frequencies as far away from the dialogue range as possible).

A coincidental driver... since the tweeter and mid are at the same spot, you do not suffer those "differing distances". You will STILL suffer lobing if they are flanked horizontally by bass drivers, but hopefully the xover between mid and bass drivers are far away enough from dialogue. See, even if you suffer lobing at lower freq, you are much less sensitive to it, and thus more forgiving.

This is one of the reasons why a vertical center speaker is best. Hence (did I recommend it in this thread), I was suggesting an upright B25. Also, the best match is the speaker identical to the mains. Lastly, getting all the drivers on the same plane is a worthy goal.



so.... why did ANYONE care to make horiz MTM centers? ONLY for aesthetic reasons, at the compromise of performance. This design has become SO ubiquitous, that people now mistake this compromised design as the ideal design.

Oops.

 

[walmat]

The price difference from C40 to C60 is $350.00 because the C40 is now at a reduced price.
As for your other point if I the front row of seats is 8' back and centered to the center speaker to approx within 10-15 degrees does the horizontal arrangement of center channels have much of an impact? Keeping in mind we don't have well trained audiofile sensitivity.
Thanks

 

[jostenmeat]

With thoughts ready to be spewed out, I now see you are in CA. Hm.

The price difference from C40 to C60 is $350.00 because the C40 is now at a reduced price.

I was going to say that $299 gets you a blemished (looks new, I know) c60 from DMC, or $350 new from Saturday Audio. I can vouch for both, as I've bought from both. But, I'm not sure that you can achieve such pricing up there.

As for your other point if I the front row of seats is 8' back and centered to the center speaker to approx within 10-15 degrees does the horizontal arrangement of center channels have much of an impact? Keeping in mind we don't have well trained audiofile sensitivity.
Thanks

10-15 degrees is pretty good. It's when you get to 20 degrees, or worse, that I'd start worrying about it for sure. Now, some people have very demanding stances about this, and some think that ANY horiz MTM is bad, but I think that angle is pretty forgiving.

FWIW, some of my recent experiences with the C60. A great MTM horiz center for the money, for HT, but I thought I was suffering big time with off axis dialogue, since the extremes of my seating are more like 20 degrees. However, (I want to reiterate, just my experiences), once I implemented Audyssey XT, this issue was GREATLY relieved. interesting . . .

Lastly, when you say front row, I assume there is yet another row. In such case, definitely C60 . . . IMO . . .

 

[walmat]

With thoughts ready to be spewed out, I now see you are in CA. Hm.


Psb's are Canadian so you'd think we'd get better deals but right now the deals to be had on PSB's are for the B25,B15, and C40.

Yes I have a second row which is rarely occupied (4 ppl can fit in front) and that row is directly inline with first so I'm not too concerned but if the C60 was only a small price difference I would consider it.
thanks

 

[jostenmeat]

Psb's are Canadian so you'd think we'd get better deals but right now the deals to be had on PSB's are for the B25,B15, and C40.

I know, it's just not right, on some level. After all, you're the guys who created the NRC, and so why wouldn't you, the taxpayer, benefit first?

Yes I have a second row which is rarely occupied (4 ppl can fit in front) and that row is directly inline with first so I'm not too concerned but if the C60 was only a small price difference I would consider it.
thanks

My opinion wasn't really based on being on-line, it had to with bigger sound and/or power handling. Also, the drivers would be the size as the B25s.

Anyhoo, please make sure to go register with 3db, President of the PSB Fanboy Club, and would you kindly tell him for me that my overdue membership fees will soon be in the mail.

Cheers

 

[3db]

The frequency response from my existing set up is good. What I'm referring to is a more immersive sound richer in detail to give you more of a theater experience.
Believe I've tweaked my existing set up with spl meter, test cd's etc and I've got it sounding pretty good now I want to yake it to the next level. Do you think the PSB's are a worthy improvement?

IMO, the PSB would be a huge jump over the Cerwin Vegas. I can say that now that I understand what you are looking for.

 

[walmat]

After two more hours of auditioning I bought the PSB's today. I spent all afternoon hooking them up, mounting the rears etc and after a couple hours of listening....Wow what an improvement over my old CV's.
Don't get me wrong the CV's were ok but these PSB's are great. They really fill the room with not only sound but rich detail and depth. They really make you feel like you're in the center of it all... totally immersed.
Thanks to all you guys for the input. I posted the same questions on other forums but you guys were definitely the most helpful.
Thank you

 

[krzywica]

Put some pics up when you get a chance man!

Glad you found the PSB's....I just love mine and I would love to get some matching towers eventually.

 

[walmat]

Put some pics up when you get a chance man!

Glad you found the PSB's....I just love mine and I would love to get some matching towers eventually.

Will do Thanks